On May 26, a user on HP’s support forums reported that a forced, automatic BIOS update had bricked their HP ProBook 455 G7 into an unusable state. Subsequently, other users have joined the thread to sound off about experiencing the same issue.
This common knowledge regarding BIOS software would, then, seem to make automatic, forced BIOS updates a real issue, even if it weren’t breaking anything. Allowing the user to manually install and prepare their systems for a BIOS update is key to preventing issues like this.
At the time of writing, HP has made no official comment on the matter — and since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
Overall, this isn’t a very good look for HP, particularly its BIOS update practices. The fragility of BIOS software should have tipped off the powers at be at HP about the lack of foresight in this release model, and now we’re seeing it in full force with forced, bugged BIOS updates that kill laptops.
If you don’t use HP and you don’t use windows you won’t have the problem. You should be boycotting HP as a part of BDS anyway. https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp
“But I already bought an HP.” If you had adopted BDS much earlier like you should have you wouldn’t have these problems.
I wish HP made good products so I could not buy it to boycott them. But I already don’t buy their crap.
How do these things not have unbrickable A/B firmware partitions by now? Even I have that on a $2 microcontroller. Self-test doesn’t pass after an update? Instant automatic rollback to the previous working partition.
Hate to be that guy, but I bet someone somewhere did the math of how much extra profit they can get from people having their device bricked and just getting a new one vs how many of them actually do the warranty claim
My motherboard legit does this. Though it’s probably more so it’s an industrial one with like 8 SATA ports than anything else.
Plenty of motherboards do that and plenty of laptops. It’s just HP sucks big time, not only their printers. Fuck HP.
It’s pretty ridiculous not to have a way of recovering from a failed update.
On my desktop, I just have to plug a flash drive with the BIOS image into a specific USB port and press a button on the motherboard. It doesn’t matter if the BIOS is broken and it doesn’t even require a CPU or RAM to be installed.
Gigabyte?
do they even use ‘dualbios’ anymore? all i’ve seen lately is ‘q flash’ (for updating bios without a cpu or video present) on their boards.
It’s an Asrock board.
HP notebooks can do that too though
since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
I hope HP aren’t surprised when they get accosted with bricked laptops through their execs’ windshields at random intervals…
If i knew of any execs near where i live they would be getting a front row seat to my reenactment of the Office Space printer scene.
It’s rare for me to viscerally hate someone just for existing, but if i met an HP exec I would have to exert quite a bit of self control to not beat them until I lost feeling in my hands
It’s rare for me to viscerally hate someone just for existing
Microsoft exec as well
Since when does Windows Update touch the BIOS? How is that even possible?
About halfway through windows 10 iirc
Windows update fetches all sorts of things now. If the hardware advertises X device then Windows update will check if it has anything for it. Approved vendors can provide all sorts of guff. Historically that has included drivers that intentionally brick your devices. HP probably packaged up some software that updates the BIOS and got it into the Windows Update DBs.
Microsoft has no business forcing firmware updates on anything. This is something HP should have handled. Those laptops are THEIR products, not Microsoft’s.
Well, you might want to avoid
fwupdtoo thenFwupd is a pull model, not a pushed automatic update. Who the fuck doesn’t read release notes and do due diligence before running fwupd?
Fedora pulls fwupd by default. If you use one of the ‘check for updates’ UIs, fwupd, dnf, and flatpak sources are all polled.
Every fucking Ubuntu user where it’s installed by default in Software Center?
This is something HP should have handled.
If a bad update is rolled out then it’s the responsibility of the software maker partner (HP) and the distributor (Microsoft), not just one or the other.
Those laptops are THEIR products, not Microsoft’s.
Both Microsoft and HP have branding on their laptops and a responsibility post-sale for the reliability of their systems. Hardware, firmware and OS responsibilities are all party to this chain of failure.
Those laptops are THEIR products, not Microsoft’s.
Microsoft: All your PC are belong to us.
What you say!!?
Move, Zig!
“Hit the road Jack”
This logic breaks down when you realize the laptop is mine, and not HP’s or Windows. And any software that is mine, my copy of windows should also be mine and not microsoft’s, can modify my device if I have selected some of my software to do that.
I thought UEFI had replaced BIOS a number of years ago. Or are we just keeping the name BIOS because everyone knows it?
The latter. It has been BIOS for so long that it is ubiquitous now.
At the time of writing, HP has made no official comment on the matter — and since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
I am not all that big on conspiracies, but this is HP, which is famous for screwing people over for as much money as possible and bricking perfectly usable technology, so if it turns out this was intentional, I won’t even be a little shocked.
As the enshittification of everything gains momentum, I could also see this as an intentional “oops!”
But we are talking about HP. They are now and always have been completely incompetent PC makers. I had friends back in the early 2000s with broken HP desktop computers that I refused to work on because they were the hardest to get working again.
I’d go Hanlon’s Razor on this, because I’ve seen some stunning stupidity. It’s not all evil when some of it is just plain dumb, because of incomplete testing and oversight, because they cut costs to save money, so the CEO gets a bonus, and ohhhhhhhh I see it now.
It’s evil.
I wish we could get a dump of executive emails.
I remember warning labels on BIOS updates that basically said that if nothing is broken, don’t do the update because the risk of bricking the device did not outweigh any potential benefits. That vendors are now pushing mandatory BIOS updates through Windows Update is terrifying.
They really, really, should be doing A/B systems. Or just have an absolutely minimum loader that can load from EPROM/flash or USB so when the system storage gets messed up, you can still launch the updater from USB. That bios loader doesn’t need to know more than how to talk to storage and shovel bytes to the CPU, maybe blink a LED, it’s simple enough to be able to be actual ROM, never needing to be updated.
Wait, no: SD cards can talk SPI… it’s not going to be fast but it’s only a few megs anyway. The EPROM or Flash you’re using probably speaks SPI, already. You could literally make a system which can load the BIOS from SD card for the cost of a card cage and maybe a jumper. You could have gigabytes of bios storage for three bucks by using off the shelf cheap SD cards, forget A/B storage you could do the whole bloody alphabet and people could replace the thing easily.
Here’s some extra fun: there’s a decent chance that you only need a cable with JST or DuPont connectors. I’ve seen a fair number of laptop motherboards with unused SPI headers/connectors just hanging out. My understanding being that they’re for possible accessories or, literally for flashing/debugging the bios.
Why can even touch bios from system? That sound like horrible attack vector. If can infect bios, no reformat or reinstall will remove virus.
attack vetor if the person has physical access to your device, or the bios connect to the internet, at that point fuck it
No meant like if can infect system, could touch bios and infect, so make virus stay forever.
Which sound horrible.
Also Intel ME can connect to internet and is below BIOS. Agree, fuck it.
You’re not touching BIOS from the system. The software just downloads a cryptographically singed binary and reboots into BIOS. Then BIOS checks if the file is ok and proceeds to flash itself.
When I heard that BIOS updates were going out automatically via Windows update I had just assumed the devices in question must be using an A/B update scheme to prevent the risk of accidentally bricking the system, because obviously they should.
Absolutely insane that’s not the case.
At a business we had an hp laptop for 6 months before it bricked. We sent in for warranty, they sent it back saying we broke it in a noncovered way
It was a workstation on a table top that never had any food etc near us. Even with appeals they will not fix it. My IT guy is now aware we do not do business with them.
Are we sure it is the BIOS? Perhaps these people have run out of magenta subpixels or their printer ink subscription has lapsed.
Heh. Same HP. Though? I forget which company got what in the divorce. I think this one is the “code built by revolving-door sweatshops and who has budget to validate it” and not the “standing over the corpse of Print and hoping lock-in will keep customers” one. The two sides may sound the same but I’m sure there are differences.
(Keeping score at home? A drunk sailor with a fist full of hundies still can’t buy anything off that horrendous website, so some things haven’t changed in the divorce)
My experience when I worked in support for a device manufacturer is that if you get high enough in the support tree and can demonstrate that this effects you (and the support person will also have a matrix of affected devices) you’ll still get a repair/replacement outside of warranty for them bricking your computer with a bad update.
We had a specific instance where a specific budget model of phone sold by Boost mobile would brick after a specific update for people who had subsidy unlocked it and taken it to a GSM carrier such as T-Mobile (this was shortly pre-merger) or AT&T. This update rolled out about 2.5 years after this devices release, so most customers were ~12 months outside of warranty. Since the scope of affected devices was so narrow our directions from the top was to replace affected devices regardless of warranty status, and the replacement would come with a standard 30 day replacement warranty
So in short, I would expect HP to repair/replace affected devices that bricked after this BIOS update regardless of warranty status, but I would expect some amount of hassle in terms of reaching a specific support department before you get assistance and standard refusal of service for customer induced physical damage (smashed screen, smashed ports, mashed potatoes in the ports, badly bent, etc.)
The article doesn’t say/clarify. Was it some crap HP software that performs driver updates, and it decided to force a bios flash? Or was it windows update itself?
If it was windows itself, holy crap, that’s a serious over reach on Microsoft’s part. Like “this is insanity windows needs to be removed” bad.
Years ago Windows used to not provide drivers. This lead to many users never downloading drivers for their devices. Users ran their devices for years without trackpad, Wifi and GPU drivers etc. The drivers were also scattered all over the internet.
These days vendors can supply Windows with drivers and even Bios updates.
It is very unlikely Microsoft pushed these drivers out themselves. HP likely provided the Bios update…
The irony here is that if you’ve an HP laptop you’ll still need to download certain drivers from HP to get things to work at 100%, for instance you may get all the hardware working after running windows update but your special brightness or wtv keys won’t work unless you go into HP’s website and download a thing.
It was most likely HP, through Windows Update (which handles device-specific driver etc. updates that OEMs are in control of). Microsoft doesn’t concern itself with pushing BIOS updates to some random 4-year old HP model
User error, should’ve got an EliteBook instead of that cheaper thing. :P
after Windows pushes new firmware
If a Linux distro pushed bad HP firmware, people would be blaming the Linux distro. Why does Microsoft get a free pass?
Some Linux distros probably did push the bad HP firmware. Vendors push updates via fwupd.
It’s not really Microsoft’s fault, they’re just delivering what HP releases via the firmware update channel.
I mean, Microsoft are a bag of dicks, but not on this one.
They don’t get the blame, but they definitely will earn a conspiracy charge. They didn’t commit the crime but they drove the van.
I think it’s HP that pushed the update though. So I’m guessing that it’s their driver that they broke not windows in general.
What the hell. How are automatic bios updates a thing. That seems like a horrible idea for multople different reasons.
