• mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 days ago

    su is the best. I mean, i should be using the admin (root) password for admin things, not the user password of user who is already logged in. And there needs to be a root service already running to make user have root previlages which is dumb imo. Sudo vulnerability could cause previlage escalation but if there is no root process managing this, then it can’t leak the root access. Only kernel security issue(or other root processes) will leak root access if that was the case, which i think is better.

    • Cryxtalix@programming.dev
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      1 day ago

      The permission to do admin things is given by the root user, to your account. So you have to verify your identity by entering your password.

      Isn’t that how it is? I though that was analogous to how almost everything worked IRL. Whether withdrawing funds from a bank or engaging government services, you prove your identity as a customer/citizen to get the relevant services. At no point do you login to bank or government computers with full privileges.

      • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        18 hours ago

        If you own your own bank, then i think you login as the one with full previlages. Yes when doing administrator things, you have to use sudo. The problem with root with sudo is, you authenticate as a user, then gain full permission from root, i.e analogous to login in to bank with full previlages.

        As a person who need to run sudo command its better to just verify yourself as root user to gain “full access”. I’m not saying about partial previlages. That is i just need a script which is just su -c with environment variables being copied

  • AndrewZabar@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I’m surprised they would implement having just run0 effectively log you in as root. For the super security conscious constrictions of the command versus sudo, it would seem that the very notion of elevating your privilege beyond the single command to be carried out, would be anathema to the whole goal of this new command. Evidently not, but it’s surprising to me.

    • Vilian@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      you can run a command using run0 it’s only elevating that commads, sometimes it’s needed to login as root, it’s life

        • LeFantome@programming.dev
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          1 day ago

          They did not miss anything. They just used commas where periods should be.

          You can run a command using run0. It’s only elevating that command. Sometimes it’s needed to login as root. It’s life.

          The way it is written, semi-colons may be more appropriate but that would be a lot of them.

    • shapis@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      Funny. I didn’t know a single thing about the person. But that commit message made me like him more.

      Ofc assuming he was just making a light-hearted joke in it.

      • steeznson@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Users were complaining that their terminal transparency was being broken by the nspawn container and that the colour for other applications like tmux were being affected by it. For example tmux was appearing in the same navy blue in the terminal emulator instead of its usual green.

        Idk he’s just a hot take merchant basically. He has a particular hate-boner for distros that don’t use systemd as the default init system like void and gentoo (usually these are troll tweets as opposed to commit messages though).

        • Vilian@lemmy.ca
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          2 days ago

          Idk he’s just a hot take merchant basically. He has a particular hate-boner for distros that don’t use systemd as the default init system like void and gentoo (usually these are troll tweets as opposed to commit messages though).

          shut up, wtf that has todo with the commit, people who don’t use systemd it’s not going to complain about the color of something that they don’t use

  • onlooker@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    I don’t know, we’ll just have to see. But personally, I am not a fan of tying so many functionalities to systemd.

  • electricprism@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    Sometimes I really hate the utility names people come up with.

    I would love to see chatgpt rename all the core utils in a way that summarizes their function.

    • qaz@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      But it literally is a summary.

      It run’s an executable as the user with id 0 (root) and it’s called run0.

    • ikidd@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The one that really annoys me is using “-r” and “-R” interchangeably for recursion. Why that has stood is beyond me.

    • sping@lemmy.sdf.org
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      2 days ago

      I feel like this is well named (run as user 0) so then I’m wondering what else you dislike and what you think would be improvements?

      • electricprism@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        My complaint was mostly targeting the big picture of everything living in /bin/

        I inferred the ‘user 0’ thing to their credit like you, it just still felt really strange as numerals are kind of a no no when programming – you can’t begin variable and other names with them and I guess having them as a suffix feels strange too as it’s not common practice.

        It will definitely be the only utility I recall that uses a numeral.

        To me the whole numeral systems are archaic, User ID numbers don’t line up when transferring data from hard drives from another machine eg 1000-1005.

        The numeral permission system is archaic and requires explicit knowledge to know the difference between a 7 6 and 4. In GUI Immutability is separate when it should be more integrated as a file control. The octal permissions are from another decade and modern platforms have permissions on whether a executible can access the internet, access input devices like camera or microphone, or sensitive data like contacts, pictures, etc…

        I think file tagging should be greatly expanded, IDv3 meta data for example was a workaround for the limitations and the core filesystem should have robust enough tagging to make it unnecessary.

        I’ll be controversial now – eliminate the . prefix to hide files. Yes I know it had been this way for decades and was grandfathered in as a feature after a bug, that should have been in the filesystem properties like chattr +I and you shouldn’t need .hidden indexes to hide files just like windows and osx litters zip files with MDF or inf or whatever (memory is fuzzy from non use).

        Some people say “4 character” limit, that needs to go too – FHS naming structure is confusing and not self evident what it does to people trying to learn who already have IT training. /etc/ having 2 or more bins /bin vs /usr/bin – ‘what does usr mean the new it ponders’ ‘oh it must mean ‘user’ I guess’. – weird stuff like that.

        To systemd credit they have no problem being controversial and relentlessly persuing their vision in a practical way, hell I use their stuff hapilly.

        I just feel like the run0 thing is a band aid on bigger problems, and AI critique would be very fascinating to make these human interfaces you know… more for us humans :P

        If not systemd, maybe the rust people or someone else will be baller enough to try to tackle these funny ackward quirks that have accumulated over the years and straighten it all out.

    • PoorPocketsMcNewHold@lemmy.ml
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      3 days ago

      Speaking of doas, is there any advantage of using it when… sudo is still available to be used? I agree that most of the stuff we require to use doesn’t need all the options sudo as, but if it is for the sake of security, maintenance, and stability… is there any reason to use doas ON TOP of the already setup sudo or su? In the past, I even tried to just apply a simple alias to replace sudo with doas, but numerous scripts and programs when trying to request explicit super-user permissions, just didn’t know what to do with doas as expected, so this ain’t it.

      • Samueru@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        Speaking of doas, is there any advantage of using it when… sudo is still available to be used?

        I like that its configuration file is very very simple.

      • Titou@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        I agree that most of the stuff we require to use doesn’t need all the options sudo as

        Main reason of using doas

        but numerous scripts and programs when trying to request explicit super-user permissions, just didn’t know what to do with doas as expected

        I’ve only found one software like that and it’s tipi, and it’s kinda dumb for a software to require such a easily replacable software. Also how openbsd users are supposed to do ? Having both doas and sudo on their machine which is unnecessary bloat ?

  • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 days ago

    At the moment, fish doesn’t know what to do with run0. When that changes, I’ll start using it :)

    • TMP_NKcYUEoM7kXg4qYe@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Yeah I mean at that point it’s redundant because you might as well type su -c “some command here”. On the other hand having such alias does no harm if you’re already using systemd.

    • wer2@lemm.ee
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      3 days ago

      Also, you can configure sudo to prompt every time if you really want.

      I was on a system that was configured that way for “security”, so I would just ‘sudo bash’ which is obviously much safer /s.

      • MadMaurice@discuss.tchncs.de
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        3 days ago

        My system is configured that way (by me) and I regularly use sudo -s.

        I just want to see if there’s a root shell and not rely on some hidden timeout 🙄

      • Vilian@lemmy.ca
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        2 days ago

        ok them go suffer alone in your 2004 distro that can’t update bash because it break the 400 scripts that it use to boot lmao

  • kingthrillgore@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    Is it going to eventually add kernel functionality and become GNU/run0 like systemd? If not i’ll keep using sudo on Ubuntu and doas everywhere else.

  • exu@feditown.com
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    3 days ago

    I might try run0 for fun, but I don’t think it’ll replace sudo any time soon.
    The biggest issue I see is run0 purposely not copying any environment variables except for TERM.
    You’d have to specify which editor to use, the current directory, stuff like PATH and HOME every time you run a command.

    • sudo had several severe security bugs caused by copying env variables so I’m not surprised run0 isn’t doing much of that. I’ve had to help a whole bunch of people fix the permissions/ownership on their Jo. E directory after running sudo so I can even see the point of jot copying $HOME by default.

      I don’t think it’ll replace sudo necessarily, or doas would’ve done that already. It’s still useful as a shorthand for systemd-run and in some locked down system configurations I can see it being useful (i.e. when minimising the amount of SUID binaries). Maybe some elaborate enterprise setups will switch to it for security reasons, especially if they’re already leveraging PolKit heavily.

    • kbal@fedia.io
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      3 days ago

      I’m not a fan of the idea at all, but come on, it can’t really be that bad. There’s got to be somewhere you can tell it what environment variables to use. Probably something like run0 systemd-edit /usr/system/systemd/systemrun/run0-environment --system-default=system

    • velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml
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      3 days ago

      Wouldn’t it be better to just use containers then? Nix and Guix has the exact thing - you get to control what variables you want to pass in.

  • kenkenken@sh.itjust.works
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    3 days ago

    I will use it. I don’t care what others think. People can use su, sudo, doas, run0 by their choice, and I don’t see why we need a common opinion about it.

      • A lot of people are afraid of systemd expanding because systemd handles a lot of stuff, so distros are likely to support it rather than the mishmash of tools they personally prefer. It all started with the System-V/Upstart replacement and now very few distros have the patience to customise and roll out the 90s style service management anymore. Their preferences used to align with the mainstream, but no longer do these days, and that causes friction.

        This process pushes people who prefer old tools to fringe distros, and newer software is less likely to work on their setups. They’re still free to use whatever system they like, of course, but the burden for developing and maintaining daemon management scripts is now on their fringe distro or themselves if their distro doesn’t have anything yet. I’d find that pretty annoying too, especially with how convoluted many older system management scripts are and how many moving parts are typically involved. Plus, some stuff like socket activation can’t even be done with some of the older init systems so people have to find alternatives.

        I doubt anyone reeling against run0 was ever going to consider it anyway.

  • Kaity@leminal.space
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    3 days ago

    As it is running sudo with a long process is annoying missing and having to reenter my password or missing and the process timing out if I go afk to wait, I can’t imagine having to type my password every few moments when I run an upgrade. Surely this is not the pitch. This is already looking dead in the water if so, and god help me if I have to remember to type run0.