I looked for this info but didn’t really see a thread about it, if there is one, a link is sufficient :)
I have a win 11 off-shelf mediocre pc for my Plex/jellyfin servers (basically nothing else on that pc; it also functions as a playback device, but it has all the libraries on it so does not matter at all how I access them) and fuck windows and stuff… it was a temporary replacement for my mobo-dead Ubuntu tower, but knowing more things than I did back then, I don’t want to ‘buntu either.
So I’m looking for a good stable distro with really good file management options; bulk rename with rules is a must even if it’s an additional program (built in to Ubuntu, very very nice utility for my exact use).
I’m thinking about trying pop, tbh mostly because I’ve heard of it and mostly good things, but idk if that’s good for the use case I have, and I do NOT want to distro-hop this specific computer. Whatever it gets has to be good enough to be a long-term stable choice (to the best of anyone’s knowledge), because I’m not going to change it later; that’s almost certainly too much work. I’ve tried a few Debian-based distros, and whatever Mint is (I do not like mint at all, please don’t suggest it) on a real old enterprise tower with 16 USB ports and 4gig ram (literally nothing, including antixlinux, runs well on it and I don’t really know why…). and plan to convert a laptop with touchscreen for gaming down the line, but this specific machine is not meant for change. Ever. That’s why it’s taken me 2 years to be willing to go back to Linux. Because change means a lot of work.
Edit to add: I know zero about docker. That apparently matters, and I didn’t think to mention it. It’s… probably beyond my capabilities at this point, but even if it isn’t, fucking stop, omg. Shut the fuck up about docker. I know I need to learn it eventually, but while it’s on my to-do list, I’m not there yet. And importantly, I -do not want- to have to learn docker for this relatively minor self-host project when I’ve been managing it for over a decade without docker bullshit. I am sure it’s “super easy” like all you tech bros say, but I’m not ready for that level of unnecessary complication. I don’t use docker now, I don’t really -want- it to be necessary for what I’m doing (because it isn’t necessary).
Skill level: meh? Not a total noob, learned how to split tunnel just to keep my server up while VPN was active back when that was necessary, and figured out how to solve most of the issues I had with it (fucking nvidia…). Prefer CLI for program management and GUI for everything else. Worked windows tech support dealing with sql and winservers for SaaS, but no official skills or training. Only used windows, Ubuntu, and antix for any significant time.
Bonus round: anyone who’s ever transferred Plex servers from win to Linux (insert flavor), is it actually possible to keep my collections and playlists and stuff? I haven’t really messed with my jelly stuff because nobody but me ever uses it, but Plex is sort of a thing for like a dozen people I know, as “home” users. The last time I went from windows to Linux, in 2019, nothing transferred other than the files… but my library is 30tb now, not 10, and has a lot more curation than it used to, so that’s a much bigger problem than it used to be.
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Debian is always the answer for a stable, easy to set up server OS.
You don’t need to use Docker if you don’t want to, you can install Plex/Jellyfin using their normal apt repos instead.
Bonus round: anyone who’s ever transferred Plex servers from win to Linux (insert flavor), is it actually possible to keep my collections and playlists and stuff?
Yes, transfer your plex database and that will come with it.
I use NixOS for all my systems now, single config covers two servers, laptop, notebook and desktop.
Containers aren’t something to be afraid of, I’ve found nix + podman to be super easy to use / configure, so much it’s a copy / paste a config from another container with some small directory changes.
If you are not someone who likes using a terminal perhaps nix isn’t for you. I’ve found forcing the terminal & configuring via nix has given me much more insight into my machines / os than ever before. If you’ve got the time to mess with Nix I’d recommend it.
If that sounds like a bunch of effort and time to get something that may be easier via another method, I’d say Proxmox is the way to go.
Running through my config I’ve just noticed that I’ve got an IP conflict that I wasn’t aware of, but makes total sense right now 😅
It sounds like you don’t necessarily like the idea of using a container (I tend to use podman, but most guides are for docker, so that’d probably be easier for you). From my experience, containerising things actually makes things a lot easier, especially in the long run, and getting started is a lot easier than it seems. You can probably find a ready-made guide to set up a plex or jellyfin container on Debian.
I use Alpine Linux for all my dockers, small and fast.
Funnily enough, I use FreeBSD. It’s simple and easy. Native zfs is perfect for lots of media. I only forgo hw acceleration but don’t miss it at all
Cool, thanks I’ll look into that :) I like easy!
I don’t typically need hw acceleration for transcoding (my users baaaaarely would use it, if at all, and I bumped up the default buffer to account for stuff anyway while testing other issues, and never set it back from 30k seconds because it works nicely for me (pre load or load, seems to work the same but this is better for bad internet) so that works! I’ll probably have to reconfigure but that super long buffer has worked wonders for my partners parents. They have super shit internet and are, other than a couple friends, my only real users.
I’ll add my vote as it’s not been mentioned: DietPi - based on Debian (since the majority are recommending that) and has a really easy “one click” menu system to install apps (of which include Jellyfin, Plex). And a built in updater to keep everything up to date. And it’ll install on pretty much anything (SBCs, new PCs, old PCs, VMs).
No need to use docker, it installs everything directly, though it does support it if you want to go down that route.
Or, DietPi with CasaOS which is a web interface and app store for docker installations.
Lastly, Plex have their own guide on what you need to copy to move your Plex data from one system to another: https://support.plex.tv/articles/201370363-move-an-install-to-another-system/
Thanks for taking the time to interact! I appreciate the recommendation and I’ll look into it (because it’s not Debian and docker. Debian is great, I’m sure docker is fine… but I’m super disenchanted on docker after this thread if I’m being honest)
Is it a pi because it’s made to run on a raspberrypi/orangepi/bananpi sort of system?
That’s not a bad thing, just asking. I use my rpi for pihole, but I know the os is just a pretty Linux distro.
I hear a lot of people use rpi as a host for such things. It might work for me but I have shitty old hardware that also does the job.
Originally it was for the Pi, but can also be installed on x64 PC systems, either UEFI or BIOS, so basically runs on anything. It does run great on a Pi, it’s biggest advantage being that it logs to RAM, which massively saves on SD card wear. It’s also the only current distro which works reliably on the original Pi 1 nowadays (if you still have those hanging around!)
And I get that everyone saying “Docker!” is a bit boring, but there is a reason for it - containerising everything does make it a lot easier to manage and migrate everything to another system or revert back a single component to a different version. And you just backup a config file and your data folder for each container and you can recreate your system so easily. If you install directly, you have to worry about databases, file paths, permissions… but as you said, there’s nothing wrong with just installing stuff. Especially if it’s only a few programs.
I run 26 docker containers. Installing all those on a system would be a mess…
I know it’s valuable, I do, it’s just not something I am interested in at this time. It’s on my to-do list, I’m just not there yet, and so it isn’t what I’m looking for right now :) it’s a lot of extra effort I have no real reason to put forth for the basic setup I have… and sure, keeping my settings would be nice, but really not worth the extra effort at this particular moment in time if I’m being honest.
Easier is relative… can I move it? Sure! Will I ever, though? I mean… even if I could, probably not… so I don’t really care to do legwork when it probably will never actually matter. If my server computer dies again, I mean it’s not like I have RAID backups or something… ima have to rebuild the lot either way. Again.
The only things I want to learn docker for are the rrs. Sonarr, radarr, overseer, etc. I don’t have them now, so no rush.
But yeah, I only have a rpi3b+ (iirc) and that’s so much overkill for a pihole… but I got it back when it was cheap for that specific use and now I regret not getting a zero or something really shit to run the pihole off. But I’ve heard people run Plex/jelly off like suuuuper simple server configs. That’s actually why I’m here and why the docker chant has been super disenchanting. Because I figured more than a handful of people would give some sort of option for just… lightweight stability.
Debian seems to be the main rec, and I’ve heard mixed things about that as a daily driver, (and I know server software is different… sometimes… for…………reasons? That probably don’t remotely apply to me…) but the fact that the rec comes almost exclusively with containerization concerns me tbh because that’s not the kind of setup I have right now… and I don’t think I need that…
but I’m super disenchanted on docker after this thread if I’m being honest
What made you feel that way? (I’m not too familiar with docker much tbh and I’m thinking of hosting on a Pi just like you.)
Mostly just nobody having a simple os choice that doesn’t seemingly need docker.
I don’t want docker, I don’t need docker, everything has been running for over a decade without it and maybe that makes me old and shit but… so stupid to just “docker!!!”.
It’s way way overkill for my setup and needs and yet nearly all of the replies to my post require or strongly encourage it. Maybe someday I will learn it but this isn’t encouraging, at all. It makes me want to avoid using docker because if this is what happens when people start using it (they have zero other options) and I’m not into it.
The biggest advantage for docker in the “home lab” environment is to be able to try out an app, but if you decide you don’t like it, removal is simply deleting the container and the data folder. That’s it. No trace left.
Sadly you can’t say that for installed apps.
But I agree, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Seems DietPi will be right up your street and look after things exactly how you want, simply 😁
Adding to the Docker chorus. I started using Docker before even using the command line. My route in was to use Unraid but that may not be best for you. I use Portainer in another install but I think the way it handles storage is a bit obtuse. In any case, as many others have said, using Docker is a piece of cake once you understand the basic ideas. Those being that a container is like a portable self contained machine that runs a specific service and any persistent storage needs to be outside the container. Containers are always my first idea when running a service as you know they will work on your system, you don’t have to worry that there will be conflicts or whatever.
Take a distro with a package manager you are familiar with. Debian should do it.
And try out docker it’s really easy to learn and straight forward.
Jellyfin has a well documented docker compose.yml which is just a textfile that points out the facts like used versions, environment and volume paths.
I did a transition from my docker compose tools to a new system in under an hour yesterday. All I had to do was backup the volumes or data paths. Firing up the containers looks like a new install but it’s just downloading the container and everything runs like before without losing any config.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters LTS Long Term Support software version NAS Network-Attached Storage Plex Brand of media server package SSD Solid State Drive mass storage VPN Virtual Private Network
[Thread #849 for this sub, first seen 4th Jul 2024, 02:55] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
Ignore the noise and use Ubuntu LTS. Subscribe for the free Ubuntu Pro service. This is something you do not get on Debian. Enjoy boring, trouble-free operation.
If you’re hell bent on not using Ubuntu, use Debian. Enjoy boring, trouble-free operation.
In either case, use Docker. I don’t know what the version of Docker is in Debian but in Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, it’s recent enough so you don’t have to f around with third party repos.
@ApathyTree
#unraid all day. Stupid easy. And I’m kind of stupidThat’s a pretty good vote, tbh. Thanks!
OpenSuSE is a good distro with nice tools like Yast that have a decent CLI interface, and has server releases. The leap edition is stable but relatively up to date.
But there are lots of viable alternatives, and if you’re going to use Docker then the host distro is probably not as important as you think.
Simplest route may be to set up a demo server within a VM and see which one chimes the most with your style of use and maintenance. You could have a functioning demo server with docker and deploy both jellyfin and Plex in 20mins.
No docker knowledge at all. So I appreciate the info, genuinely :)
I actually know someone who used to use opensuse years ago. They are the ones that turned me on to Ubuntu, but despite (or because of) being a big-wig security pro, I doubt they remember much of it. :) so I’m just assuming I’m on my own with it.
I do flash media booting to test stuff, but I refuse to test on the actual host pc because there’s too much chance of fucking up (any chance is too much; I have no RAID backup, no backup at all, can’t afford that many drives and I’m playing fast and loose with it)… I don’t even plan to keep my drives installed when I swap, juuuust in case I fuck it up monumentally. Some of what I have is wildly difficult to find and came from the actual library in town…
Then I’d definitely set up a test system in a VM on your own PC (I.e. not the actual server machines). Even if you don’t want to use Docker, you can set up a complete version of your new server and practice deploying Jellyfin and Plex, and then test accessing it “remotely” to manage it. You can then decide whether switching away from Win11 is worth it.
If you’re not familiar with the process of setting up a linux server then I’d actually suggest Debian instead of OpenSuSe. Looking at the Jellyfin guide for example it specifically covers the steps for installing directly onto a Debian host (while OpenSuSE set up means using the Fedora RPM guide). There are also straight forward guides for setting up a Debian server.
Personally I’m not a fan of Ubuntu (because of Canonical and Snap etc) but there may also be a good choice just because there are so many guides out there for setting up Ubuntu server.
The problem with testing is that the server computer and my other computers are suuuuper different for hardware. So I don’t think it would be a representative test.
I have an ancient enterprise (the hard drive had an oooold windows 7 install on, and it doesn’t run anything for shit, not really sure why at this point…), and a gaming-capable laptop (not like what I used to have from ibuypower way back in the early naughties when it was worth buying and not just alienware lite… but pretty decent for a mass-market laptop I guess.)
Server pc doesn’t match either of those capability-wise so whatever I try is going to be either boringly perfect or nonfunctional. So I’m looking to skip the test environment, ideally… I know that’s a bad idea, but I’m looking for like maybe 2 days downtime, and I’m only doing it now because I’m also upgrading my hard drives (I literally ran out of space on the 25tb I had so swapping a drive for a bigger one) in a way that kinda breaks the server anyway. More than that and I’ll get complaints from people who don’t get what I’m giving them, just that it doesn’t work… 🙄
I’m probably not into Ubuntu for the same reason, it’s stable and fine but… idk I don’t want a company potentially degrading my system for profit. I’d stay on windows for that. Already paid for it with the pc and all.
But you make a good argument for Debian; having guides. That would have been helpful context from the other comments, but I think I understand the recommendations now when core Debian is -not- recommended as a daily driver.
I appreciate your time friend! Your comment was super helpful… probably :)
If you use docker, it doesnt matter the distro. And to use docker, you dont really need to understand how/why it works. As long as you can take an example compose file and spin it up (docker compose up) it’ll be less complicated in the long run than managing plex on the host machine (or most software for that matter, which is why containerization is so popular.)
I don’t know anything about docker, unfortunately. And I want this swapped before I have time to learn it.
It’s on my to-do to learn, but I haven’t found any good intro guides that make it accessible, and my uhh… “workflow” heh, works with that limitation. It’s very manual. Not ideal, but I haven’t yet had the energy to teach myself docker.
Ubuntu server, it’s a bit more modern than Debian and has a massive install base which means someone has had your problem and fixed it before and documented it.
Can you please explain how Ubuntu is more modern than Debian?
good stable distro
Debian
long-term stable choice
Debian
this specific machine is not meant for change. Ever.
Debian
Bonus round: anyone who’s ever transferred Plex servers from win to Linux (insert flavor), is it actually possible to keep my collections and playlists and stuff?
Yes, it’s relatively simple, especially with Docker. Back up the Plex folder from your windows machine. Once your new OS is set up, put the folder where you wanna store it and point Docker to that folder in the compose.yaml.
Let’s just say that I know nothing about docker and don’t plan to learn before I do this is swap (because these are both true things, and I edited the main post because everyone assumed I know docker and I absolutely don’t)
How does that change your reply, if at all?
Without docker you still just copy your files from Windows to Linux, though you have to find the right directories for that. Jellyfin can be installed directly on Debian. Just add their repo and go
Is there a reason you’re not considering running this in a VM?
I could see a case where you go for a native install on a virtual machine, attach a virtual disk to isolate your library from the rest of the filesystem, and then move that around (or just straight up mount that directory in the container) as needed.
That way you can back up your library separately from your JF server implementation and go hog wild.
That’s too much work; I don’t know how to do it and have it work; I don’t want to put forth that much effort to learn an entire new dynamic for something literally nobody actually cares about but me… I mean there’s tons of reasons I wouldn’t want to do that.
As a self-host community that should be like… understood…? But I was apparently wrong to make that assumption. Most of this community can’t even suggest anything that doesn’t involve docker. Which is super lame for low-level hosts.
But this post didn’t suggest Docker, it suggested a VM. This would be a totally sensible thing to do as you can just recreate it if you mess it up. Virtualbox works fine on Windows and Linux. Install it and spin up a distro.
Mate, the suggestions you have been given for VMs and docker are to help you recover easily should you mess up. If you are going to moan about that…maybe just install bare metal and get on with it yourself?
As a person who has been managing Linux servers for about a decade now, trust me that a few hours or days of learning docker now will save you weeks if not months in the future. Docker makes managing servers and dealing with updates trivial and predictable. Setting everything up in docker compose makes it easy to recover if something fails, it’s it’s self documenting because you can quickly see exactly how your applications are configured and running.
I would recommend using Docker first on the windows machine as a step in the transition. I did exactly this when I was transitioning to debian from windows. It made the official switch insanely easy because all I had to do was set up the Docker filesystem to what it already knew and it started up without any issues.
My lessons learned:
Keep the database on an SSD. I put mine on a HDD and it corrupted.Keep the database on an SSD. I put mine on a HDD and it corrupted.
That seems very odd to me, and a very serious bug, no? 🤨 I feel like the storage medium shouldn’t matter as long as it can keep up with data throughput (or eventually keep up, with some help with buffering via the kernel or some other mechanism).
Millions of database have run on hdds for decades just fine. They didn’t know what they’re talking about.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I put it on a larger HDD because my SSD was running out of space and it corrupted about a week later.
Nothing to do with it being an hdd.
When you say database, do you mean the OS and the server install? That’s my current setup; ssd for OS and anything that needs installing, with hdds for the actual content.
I’m sure docker is easier if you know it… that’s like the point, afaik, but while basic use might be easy, it’s… never ever that easy for me, something always goes wrong, which is why I haven’t bothered yet. I know I should, I know it’ll make things easier (hypothetically), but it feels like a huge undertaking for someone with no skills. I’ve been looking for a super noob friendly instruction guide, and have not found one that I can work with, tbh, without a bunch of other know-how that I don’t have. (If you know of any I’d be eternally grateful!!!)
Does the docker container have gpu access for transcoding?
Yes, if you pass the gpu into the container
pass the gpu into the container
Man, if the “Download more RAM!” scammers of old could see us now.
It is possible to pass transcoding - I’ll share my compose file when I’m at my computer
