What are you talking about? Teens undergo life changing surgery all the time, whether it is for a sports injury, to correct scoliosis, oral surgery, etc.
This is EXACTLY how it goes! A teen walks into a Doctor’s office and says “I’M TRANS!” and the Doctor gets their Scissor and cuts off their Penis without ANY TESTING or THERAPY or TRANSITIONAL PERIODS whatsoever!
You’re stretching even further now. Most medical care is based on a patient telling a doctor what is bothering them. There’s allergies, soft tissue injuries, psychological needs, sleep disorders, digestive problems, eating disorders,learning disabilities, etc. etc. etc.
Teens shouldn’t be allowed treatment for any of those? Or will you keep drawing more and more granular distinctions to fit your conclusion?
Let’s just take an example that fits your definition: bariatric surgery is 1) surgical 2) not determined by imaging 3) undergone only in consultation with the patient 4) undergone only alongside psychological and lifestyle support 5) related to future health outcomes 6) related to the patient’s body image 7) sometimes appropriate in teens/adolescents 8) requires lifelong lifestyle changes 9) not related to an accute injury or illness 10) it is not an urgent lifesaving procedure
It is in every way exactly like gender affirming care except not being related to gender.
So surely you would argue that bariatric surgery should be banned for teens, based on your position. Their brains are still developing so they cannot possibly make such a decision that will impact the rest of their lives. If they still feel like they need it when they are adults, then they can do it then.
I gotta say, bariatric surgery sounds pretty bad after googleing it. Its no where near like trans surgery. Though, I personally think both should be banned for minors. I am of the mind that such life altering changes should only be made once someone is of a certian age to be fully responsible.
I do not have faith in teenagers or even young adults to know how to best handle their life when they are so young. Im in my thirties and i barely believe i make the best decision for my own life.
My concern are for the ones who will ultimately regret having made the decision to transition. There just should be a limit to any body modification for minors.
Here is where we differ: I believe that the very smart people who go to school to study these exact issues for many years, practice for decades, review one another’s work, and spend a lifetime studying the outcomes of the surgeries are in the best place to decide what should and shouldn’t be allowed.
If an individual, their family, and an entire team of doctors determine that something is safe and advisable, I trust that decision much more than my uneducated feelings.
Yeah i agree, im not whole sale against it. But you talk of these highly educated people making these decisions. What about all the morally corrupt parts of life where this can, and i bet is, being abused for nefarious reason.
I just think all major decisions like these should only be made once someone is of age. That way if they were wrong it couldn’t be held against anyone in a future lawsuit./s
It is something I often do, to gauge the mindset of a community. Its openness, how prone they are to being offended, hostility, etc.
Posting something similar, adapted to the issues of the_donald for instance, yielded eerily similar results. Accusations, open hostility, bans, etc. Same for some lgb subs.
The open and accepting trans and lgb communities I’ve posted similar comments were met with understanding, a willingness to educate. They would’ve responded by pointing out that the 2 statements are not equal, cannot be compared. The 15yo sharing the nudes hasn’t spent years talking to professionals about it. While the 15yo contemplating transitioning most probably has, therefore is much more informed and quite possibly can make that decision.
One of the things we try to teach our youngsters is that while you might’ve had bad experiences in the past, it does not mean every new person you meet will hurt you. Something most people tend to forget.
You have not been banned for your opinions, but for your conduct. Saying deliberately shocking or offensive things to “gauge the mindset of a community” is trolling, and is not allowed here. I hope that after taking a short break from the community you can return to engage more authentically. Please feel free to PM myself or another mod if you have any questions in the meantime.
Funny how you assume I want to ban it. Seems like a common trend. In which you are identical to the frequenters of r/the_donald. If I don’t flatout agree with you, I must heavily oppose you.
Didn’t you get the “trans care is a dialog” part? I mean I would love to see your reasoning in how that can be viewed as wanting to ban it. I always love a good show of mental gymnastics.
No. You did not. Parents aren’t required. Neither is the doctor initially. Psycologist or psychiatrist would be better. They have a better understanding than your run of the mill doctor.
Perhaps I should’ve been more clear that my response was not aimed only at you, but the others here as well.
Kids are never offered “life changing surgeries”. This doesn’t happen.
Evidence very much suggests being trans is a genuine neurological condition that we are born with.
Additionally, getting a diagnosis is a long process (and it’s not guaranteed that you’ll get one), and then actually getting treatment takes even more time (also not guaranteed).
Weird how you left out the links of studies, reports of people that actually do regret it. I mean should we just ignore those people?
If you want kids to be able to make these decisions, you will have to inform them. Properly. Not just paint them a nice picture. That’s what you’re currently doing. Not informing them and painting nice pink pictures.
It is not sunshine and rainbows for everyone. There are trans people who regret it. Ignoring that fact is being dishonest with yourself and the transcommunity.
The rate of regret for transition is massively lower than almost any other medical intervention. Why do you care so much about this one specific type of intervention, above all others? Why not invest your activism into medical interventions with much higher rates of regret?
They would have known this if they bothered to open the surgery regret rate studies I linked them (but we both know studies won’t change their minds). For the lazy it’s less than 1% for both transmascs and transfems.
So requesting you be honest and fully inform kids is pedophiliac tendencies? You do get how this makes you look? Right?
Please point out where I mentioned anything anti-trans. Or is this again by requesting honesty and transparency? Again, you do realise how this makes you look? Right?
Judging from the responses and downvotes, I can see this community still doesn’t want informed consent…
Well, you’re posting anti-trans rhetoric (talking about regret rates without mentioning that they are much lower than almost any others, talking as if people weren’t well-informed about the risks during the multi-year process it takes to transition etc). I can quote your whole post back to you if it helps you? But you can just scroll up and read your own comment, it’s a neat function of messaging boards.
On one hand arguing that a 15 yo isn’t old enough to realise the consequences of spreading AI nudes of a real girl.
On the other hand arguing that 15 yo’s are totes old and responsible enough to undergo life changing surgery/procedures.
What are you talking about? Teens undergo life changing surgery all the time, whether it is for a sports injury, to correct scoliosis, oral surgery, etc.
True. And how do those differ from trans care?
They have higher regret rates than trans care?
No sweetie, those can be diagnosed through imaging and completed without the patient saying one word.
Trans care is a dialog.
Nice try, better luck next time?
This is EXACTLY how it goes! A teen walks into a Doctor’s office and says “I’M TRANS!” and the Doctor gets their Scissor and cuts off their Penis without ANY TESTING or THERAPY or TRANSITIONAL PERIODS whatsoever!
You’re stretching even further now. Most medical care is based on a patient telling a doctor what is bothering them. There’s allergies, soft tissue injuries, psychological needs, sleep disorders, digestive problems, eating disorders,learning disabilities, etc. etc. etc.
Teens shouldn’t be allowed treatment for any of those? Or will you keep drawing more and more granular distinctions to fit your conclusion?
Let’s just take an example that fits your definition: bariatric surgery is 1) surgical 2) not determined by imaging 3) undergone only in consultation with the patient 4) undergone only alongside psychological and lifestyle support 5) related to future health outcomes 6) related to the patient’s body image 7) sometimes appropriate in teens/adolescents 8) requires lifelong lifestyle changes 9) not related to an accute injury or illness 10) it is not an urgent lifesaving procedure
It is in every way exactly like gender affirming care except not being related to gender.
So surely you would argue that bariatric surgery should be banned for teens, based on your position. Their brains are still developing so they cannot possibly make such a decision that will impact the rest of their lives. If they still feel like they need it when they are adults, then they can do it then.
Right?
I gotta say, bariatric surgery sounds pretty bad after googleing it. Its no where near like trans surgery. Though, I personally think both should be banned for minors. I am of the mind that such life altering changes should only be made once someone is of a certian age to be fully responsible.
I do not have faith in teenagers or even young adults to know how to best handle their life when they are so young. Im in my thirties and i barely believe i make the best decision for my own life.
My concern are for the ones who will ultimately regret having made the decision to transition. There just should be a limit to any body modification for minors.
Here is where we differ: I believe that the very smart people who go to school to study these exact issues for many years, practice for decades, review one another’s work, and spend a lifetime studying the outcomes of the surgeries are in the best place to decide what should and shouldn’t be allowed.
If an individual, their family, and an entire team of doctors determine that something is safe and advisable, I trust that decision much more than my uneducated feelings.
Yeah i agree, im not whole sale against it. But you talk of these highly educated people making these decisions. What about all the morally corrupt parts of life where this can, and i bet is, being abused for nefarious reason.
I just think all major decisions like these should only be made once someone is of age. That way if they were wrong it couldn’t be held against anyone in a future lawsuit./s
Perhaps some more context is required.
It is something I often do, to gauge the mindset of a community. Its openness, how prone they are to being offended, hostility, etc.
Posting something similar, adapted to the issues of the_donald for instance, yielded eerily similar results. Accusations, open hostility, bans, etc. Same for some lgb subs.
The open and accepting trans and lgb communities I’ve posted similar comments were met with understanding, a willingness to educate. They would’ve responded by pointing out that the 2 statements are not equal, cannot be compared. The 15yo sharing the nudes hasn’t spent years talking to professionals about it. While the 15yo contemplating transitioning most probably has, therefore is much more informed and quite possibly can make that decision.
One of the things we try to teach our youngsters is that while you might’ve had bad experiences in the past, it does not mean every new person you meet will hurt you. Something most people tend to forget.
You have not been banned for your opinions, but for your conduct. Saying deliberately shocking or offensive things to “gauge the mindset of a community” is trolling, and is not allowed here. I hope that after taking a short break from the community you can return to engage more authentically. Please feel free to PM myself or another mod if you have any questions in the meantime.
Funny how you assume I want to ban it. Seems like a common trend. In which you are identical to the frequenters of r/the_donald. If I don’t flatout agree with you, I must heavily oppose you.
Didn’t you get the “trans care is a dialog” part? I mean I would love to see your reasoning in how that can be viewed as wanting to ban it. I always love a good show of mental gymnastics.
Ah, yes. Because doing surgeries “without the patient saying one word” to consent to them is great for regret rates. XD
I guess you missed the important part. And focussed only on the irrelevant part. Didn’t expect anything else tbh.
On the other hand arguing that it’s between the parents, their child, and their doctor. Not lawmakers and not you.
It’s funny how you just downvote and provide zero arguments. Just jumping to call me anti-trans and a pedo.
Good thing I’m not as phobic as you people and will still support the trans community, just not the individuals being dicks.
I did not downvote you, I did give an argument and I did not call you either anti-trans or a pedophile.
Why are you lying? Everyone can even see that all but the downvote lie are lies.
No. You did not. Parents aren’t required. Neither is the doctor initially. Psycologist or psychiatrist would be better. They have a better understanding than your run of the mill doctor.
Perhaps I should’ve been more clear that my response was not aimed only at you, but the others here as well.
Kids are never offered “life changing surgeries”. This doesn’t happen. Evidence very much suggests being trans is a genuine neurological condition that we are born with.
Our brains match our gender.
Brains are not necessarily binary.
We understand some of the causes.
“Risk” of being born trans seems to be partly genetic.
Our identities are stable.
The American Academy of Pediatrics is on our side.
Adults don’t regret surgery. And another study on the same.
Additionally, getting a diagnosis is a long process (and it’s not guaranteed that you’ll get one), and then actually getting treatment takes even more time (also not guaranteed).
Awfully quick to jump to conclusions. Awfully quick to remove people from society.
Sad that you think those actions are just. May you be treated how you treat others. 😉
Hence the /procedures. 😉
Weird how you left out the links of studies, reports of people that actually do regret it. I mean should we just ignore those people?
If you want kids to be able to make these decisions, you will have to inform them. Properly. Not just paint them a nice picture. That’s what you’re currently doing. Not informing them and painting nice pink pictures.
It is not sunshine and rainbows for everyone. There are trans people who regret it. Ignoring that fact is being dishonest with yourself and the transcommunity.
The rate of regret for transition is massively lower than almost any other medical intervention. Why do you care so much about this one specific type of intervention, above all others? Why not invest your activism into medical interventions with much higher rates of regret?
They would have known this if they bothered to open the surgery regret rate studies I linked them (but we both know studies won’t change their minds). For the lazy it’s less than 1% for both transmascs and transfems.
So requesting you be honest and fully inform kids is pedophiliac tendencies? You do get how this makes you look? Right?
Please point out where I mentioned anything anti-trans. Or is this again by requesting honesty and transparency? Again, you do realise how this makes you look? Right?
Judging from the responses and downvotes, I can see this community still doesn’t want informed consent…
No, I’m talking about your kiddy diddling/anti-trans rhetoric. Why do you diddle kids/spread anti-trans rhetoric?
Please point out where I wrote anything like that. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
Well, you’re posting anti-trans rhetoric (talking about regret rates without mentioning that they are much lower than almost any others, talking as if people weren’t well-informed about the risks during the multi-year process it takes to transition etc). I can quote your whole post back to you if it helps you? But you can just scroll up and read your own comment, it’s a neat function of messaging boards.
Informed consent is now anti-trans? Really?