cross-posted from: https://lemmy.cringecollective.io/post/75583
why isn’t it ok? why???
Meme “the number of people who think this is an abomination” over a photo of a USB-A to USB-A cable, “but think this is perfectly acceptable” over a photo of a USB-C to USB-C cable, “makes me sick.”
I guess the usb spec makes you sick then.
With the the first one you can fry your gear, while stuff that takes the second one does auto negotiation.
I’ve never seen a USB-A to A cable in the wild, except recently, where I finally unpacked my SATA/IDE USB adapter from Ugreen.
They used to be moderately common in the before times, like 2.5 inch IDE HDD times.
For added horror those often where Y cables, too.
My USB KVM switch uses them
Who are these people?
That’s just one internet rando.
USB-A requires three attempts to connect, C only one.
Six since it has A at both ends.
- 3 for A, 5 for B.
There is no USB-B here and it is pretty hard to get the wrong direction anyway.
I absolutely have some Type C cables that only work one way because there’s no enforced standards and the manufacturer will wire them however is cheap, throw on another company’s logo, and sell it to Amazom.
Gross. I haven’t run into that.
I have never seen this.
There is absolutely a certification process, but playing legal whack-a-mole with fly-by-night counterfeiters is difficult.
This is why buying reputable brands from reputable sellers is important.But even then, I remember years ago I read an article about major retailers selling counterfeit brand name SD cards that didn’t meet the labeled performance specifications and had very poor QC. Turns out that gray market sellers were buying batches of the real product that failed QC and just reselling them as though they were fine, and they ended up making their way back into the distribution network.
In the end the conclusion was that we’re all kind of fucked until retailers start being way more strict about their supply chains, which they are disincentivized to do, because the current system gives them plausible deniability on things like child labor.They’ll also buy the real product, return the counterfeit product, then sell the real one.
Who is “they”?
You have to test the product to know it’s counterfeit. Then you have to return it. Then you have to buy it again and, what? Hope that what they have stocked is from a different batch? I don’t think this is any different between Amazon and other retailers
Don’t buy electronics through amazon. This is precisely why.
Even if you don’t, there is basically no way to tell you’ve got a legit authentic product that passed QC until you test it yourself. The supply chains that give retailers plausible deniability wrt child labor also by their nature allow counterfeits.
You have to get your electronics from somewhere, retailers’ supply chain has a helluva lot more quality control than Amazon. Just because you can’t get to 100% doesn’t mean you shouldn’t strive for, well, anything more than the worst chances anyone can offer.
I imagine that “sold by Amazon” has about the same supply chain reliability as big box retailers. On Amazon you do gotta check your seller rating if you’re not buying prime, but that’s not harder than driving to best buy, and big box retailer online stores have the same problem when they’re the storefront for 3rd parties (as many are, trying to emulate Amazon).
On Amazon, reviews can be faked, but at least it has reviews.
You’re wrong. Amazon mixes inventory between themselves and any other seller that’s fulfilled by Amazon, meaning if one random seller has fake product, then even the “sold by Amazon” option can send you that other seller’s fake product. And vice versa, of course.
Ooph yeah that seems pretty bad. What is even the purpose of seller rating with FBA if the inventories are mixed?
I am a stupid end user. But I’ve never found an instance where I needed male to male cords.
You’ve never used HDMI?
Chargers are now female. So you need m2m to charge your phone
In general? Off the top of my head I remember these male to male cables.
- Ethernet cables
- telephone cables when they were a thing
- audio cables of different varieties
- optical cables
- coaxial cables when they were a thing
What’s a common thing that would require the use of USB A on both ends?
it was common amongst digital cameras in the early 2000’s.
and maybe you could somehow link up two computers as well…? tho that could have been some specialized cables
They make A-to-A cables with a bit of file transfer software integrated into the cord. Useful for transferring big files between two PCs without setting up a network.
nothing worthwhile, as it’s not allowed (for a good reason)
The only place i ever saw it was on those cooling padas for laptops
We peaked at USB mini B.
As it being disgusting or great?
Objectively disgusting. How can one connector be so chunky while still being asymmetric?
USB 3 micro B
I actually have several USB-A to USB-A cables.
Why?
you can use them to transfer files between PCs without the need for a flash/thumb-drive I also have a few flashlights that charge in and out through a USB-A
For the glory of Satan, of course!
Hub switches, for one. Power is another (usb a is easier to solder on by hand, as well as cheaper)
Huh, I’m not sure they are comparable.
Didn’t USB A and USB B use a master-slave relationship in which the male would (generally) always be the slave, whereas USB C uses agreement and discussion to decide the master and slave roles regardless of connector gender.
Please do correct me if I’m wrong. Also, do we say “agent” now instead of “slave”, or what is the new term?
Type C sounds like a healthy relationship.
I have a healthy relationship with my Master uwu
Mechanics are still trying to figure that out with the “master cylinder” and “slave cylinder”
I think the biggest problem I see with A to A is: who’s delivering power, and who’s receiving it? Maybe if you use it only with the device it came with then it’ll be fine, but if anyone tries to just hook up that cable to two random computers, it might actually cause a short circuit and fry something.
Whereas Type-C was explicitly made to handle such situations.
Or a shorter reason: Type-C cable is allowed by the spec while Type-A is not.
Hrm. I have a keyboard that requires an A to A cable and I think it works with the cable any way around…
Might be wrong.
It makes sense, if I remember correctly the older USB cable (i.e. everything before Type-C) are passive, so as long as the pins are wired symmetrically it wouldn’t matter which side is which. But whoever made your keyboard really blundered, there is no reason in the world why anyone would do this. There’s so many options: the B connector, mini USB, micro USB. All would make sense to put in the keyboard. A just doesn’t.
Let me guess: you got it from an ultra cheap online store? AliExpress/Wish/Temu?
You guessed wrong.
It’s a ridiculously expensive and “home made” looking, but it saved my hands from OCD.
Ooh, I did guess wrong! That is an interesting specimen.
My suspicion is that they are experts in ergonomics, not in electrical engineering, so they probably aren’t aware of how silly and possibly dangerous what they did is. Or perhaps they simply don’t care because “it gets the job done”, standards and specifications be damned.
Anyway, in this case I’m happy to be proven wrong. Thanks.
I known they outsourced the firmware development, so who knows, maybe the electronics hardware too.
I’ve actually used this to my advantage. I bought some cheap speaker/light combos which basically made the lights dance to the music. The only power connector was a wire that comes straight out of the device and into an outlet. But it did have a USB port for loading music from a USB stick. So naturally I plugged one side of a USB A into the port and the other side into a power bank and it just straight up worked.
Both ends of a USB cable are generally male (unless you’re talking about an extender). Generally the type B end (in mini, micro, or full configuration) would be the client though I have seen a couple of clients use Mini or Micro A.
I think reusing server/client naming for USB connectivity instead of master/slave would fit it
I believe the common terms now are “domme” and “sub”
I can’t tell if this is real life or sarcasm…
Did I really miss the memo on this one?
No that’s the lingo the professionals use these days
I can confirm, I’m called sub at work
Ah yeah, I’ve heard that offices are rolling out a new role of office cumdump. Glad to hear from someone already in the role
I’m going to refer to myself as USB-B from now on
In the usb world its “host” and “device”, not “master” and “slave”.
But yes you are rightmaster/slave could be primary/secondary, primary/subordinate or principle/agent, so you’re correct on that replacement.
I personally am a big fan of “Mantrap” becoming an “Access Control Vestibule” mostly because it’s fun to say.
I like controller/peripheral, which is the most descriptive in my opinion. That’s what’s commonly used for SPI.
Yeah we’ve been going by primary-secondary where I am for the just 6 to 7 years now but I don’t think a universally agreed replacement for the terms exists yet.
actually they would be correct :
USB began as a protocol where one side (USB-A) takes the leading role and the other (USB-B) the following role . this was mandated by hardware with differently shaped plugs and ports . this made sense for the time as USB was ment to connect computers to peripherals .
however some devices don’t fit this binary that well : one might want to connect their phone to their computer to pull data off it , but they also might want to connect a keyboard to it , with the small form factor not allowing for both a USB-A and USB-B port. the solution was USB On-The-Go : USB Mini-A/B/AB and USB Micro-A/B/AB connectors have an additional pin which allows both modes of operations
with USB-C , aside from adding more pins and making the connector rotationally symmetric , a very similar yet differently named feature was included , since USB-C - USB-C connections were planed for
so yeah USB-A to USB-A connections are explicitly not allowed , for a similar reason as you only see CEE 7 (fine , or the objectively worse NEMA) plugs on both ends of a cable only in joke made cables . USB-C has additional hardware to support both sides using USB-C which USB-A , neither in the original or 3.0 revision , has .
With USB-C isn’t there still a slave-master dynamic that is now negotiated via software rather than hardware?
it seems like it , but I have no idea !
edit : to clarify , I believe it does , using the CC1 & CC2 pins which are also used for other things , but I don’t know anything about USB protocol side , I should learn about it haha
I think since it’s now a software implementation, USB-C supports many such modes, some of which are slave-master as is needed, but others such as various display modes, and power modes.
a slave-master dynamic
please don’t use that term, every time i see it i immediately verge on orgasming. you’ve already made me ruin 2 undergarments today. i have a serious bdsm kink and this is not funny.
sorry, I didn’t mean trigger you. I’ll refer to it as a daddy-pig duo instead
I bought a charging pad once that had a USB c connector but none of the 40 USB power adapters I have have one so I returned it. IDK wtf they were thinking. Just make the wall end an A connector like everyone else has been doing for a decade.
USB-C can deliver more power which is why they’ve been appearing more and more on charging bricks.
C-C carries more power than A-C?
USB-PD is only specified for USB-C. I think they use an extra channel for this configuration, so it’s not possible to use PD over A plugs.
There were competing standards like Qualcom quick charge. AFAIK they never went above 20-ish watts on USB-A, while PD is specced at up to 240W.
Interesting. I always figured the wires inside were all the same.
Oh no the wires are a mess. Usb3 cables have extra wires and pins for super-speed. IIRC usb-c has said extra pins for usb configuration like pd or displayport alt mode. The wires can also be different. Some can carry more current, most cables are insufficient for really high data rates…
Yes, USB-A is only spec’ed for 5v 2.4a, so it will end up throttling the USB-C end which has higher power delivery specs.
I had to look up, USB PD does work with a USB A port.
That being said, I personally want to get to a single type of cable so any I get can be spares for anything I have, so I like USB c to be all around.
That ALSO being said, I doubt I will ever get to all USB C.
Side note, USB PD is awesome because I know it can do up to 240w. (Last I knew.) That is 48v at 5a, so I am not sure what they can do to squeeze out more wattage.
USB PD is not specced for USB-A which is limited to 5V 2.4A. They had Quick Charge back in the day that got a little bit higher power using 9V but all the modern higher voltage high current PD stuff uses USB-C. The USB-A cables aren’t specced to be running 5A or more that PD uses.
I realy don’t want a cable i plug both ends in wrong and have to turn them a couple of times
If I remember correctly you can’t do data copy with A to A. I maybe wrong but I’m to lazy to look up.
I actually have a double sided male A cable. I was shocked when I got it but I have this laptop cooler that has two A ports on it, presumably to allow a pass through but I’m always nervous that I’ll plug it in and fry something.
Cut it in half and avoid the spec violating abomination.
You’d probably be able to remove the cooler’s non-compliant a-port and just solder the cable directly.
Then at least it’ll be less of an abomination.
A to B made more sense in a world where devices cannot serve as both roles vai negotiation. My android phone when I got it utilized a data transfer method of plugging my iPhone charge port into my Android charge port, then the Android initiated the connection as a host device.
The true crime is not that the cable is bidirectional, the true crime is that there is little to no proper distinction and error checking between USB, Thunderbolt, and DisplayPort modes and are simply carried on the same connector. I have no issues with the port supporting tunneled connections - that is in fact how docking stations work - just the minimal labeling we get in modern devices.
I’d be fine with a type-A to type-A cable if both devices had a reasonable chance at operating as both the initiator and target - but that type of behavior starts with USB-OTG and continues in type-C.
