“If the purges [of potential voters], challenges and ballot rejections were random, it wouldn’t matter. It’s anything but random. For example, an audit by the State of Washington found that a Black voter was 400% more likely than a white voter to have their mail-in ballot rejected. Rejection of Black in-person votes, according to a US Civil Rights Commission study in Florida, ran 14.3% or one in seven ballots cast.”
"[…] Democracy can win* despite the 2.3% suppression headwind.
And that’s our job as Americans: to end the purges, the vigilante challenges, the ballot rejections and the attitude that this is all somehow OK."
Dem pols are always too afraid to exercise the power they have when they win. Always. When Biden won, DC and Puerto Rican statehood should have been the first things on the agenda.
The GOP is never afraid to exercise as much power as they can get away with.
Oh look election denialism
By “restrictive voting laws” do you mean voters having to show ID? Like every other country on the planet?
Why don’t you ever try and actually meet the other side in good faith?
Opponents of voter ID have a very simple line of argumentation, and very clear issues that would need to be solved. Why do you think proponents of voter ID never attempt to solve these issues?
Why do proponents always insist that voter ID has to be implemented in a way that happens to hurt minority voters disproportionately?
Why don’t you ever try and actually meet the other side in good faith?
You first
Opponents of voter ID have a very simple line of argumentation, and very clear issues that would need to be solved.
Like?
Why do you think proponents of voter ID never attempt to solve these issues?
You don’t name them or they’re aren’t an actual issue
Why do proponents always insist that voter ID has to be implemented in a way that happens to hurt minority voters disproportionately?
They don’t
You first
No, I won’t allow you to disadvantage minorities, no matter how often you ask.
Like?
You’ve literally never listened to anyone opposing your view? Or why are you asking me?
You don’t name them or they’re aren’t an actual issue
No, I think you’re a bad faith troll and won’t invest more time than strictly necessary. If you’re not a bad faith troll, it’s literally one search away!
They don’t
You literally started your comment doing exactly this
No, I won’t allow you to disadvantage minorities, no matter how often you ask.
I won’t allow you to stereotype minorities as people incapable of doing things, especially something as easy as getting an ID.
You’ve literally never listened to anyone opposing your view? Or why are you asking me?
I do it everyday, you just don’t have an answer
it’s literally one search away!
Should be easy for you to name them then
You literally started your comment doing exactly this
I literally never said anything about that. Literally
I won’t allow you to stereotype minorities as people incapable of doing things, especially something as easy as getting an ID.
Strawman racist bullshit, disguised as uplifting affirmation of equality. Tell us you don’t see color while you’re at it.
Oh, it’s a bad faith troll, what a surprise, who could have seen it coming, oh no
It’s not as difficult to get ID in many other countries
It’s not difficult in the US
It’s harder than it should be
Harder than going to the place that gives them out and asking for one? I’m not going to hold your hand
No, this article is talking about things like rejecting registration based on minor clerical errors like ink color, rejecting provisional ballots arbitrarily, and restricting the availability of ballot boxes. That sort of thing.
On the voter id question, by the way, the argument isn’t about whether or not you should have ID to vote, it’s about whether you can get ID in the first place.
Most countries in the world either issue IDs to everyone or allow you to prove your identity with things like bank statements and utility bills, or just somebody else who can vouch for you. The problem with US voter ID laws is that they only give you a few options for acceptable documents, and then make it hard to get those documents.
Yeah trump lost, that’s why he is the president of the united states of America
Guys, ease up with the fickle double think
Next thing you’ll say that Kamala won and she is the one in actual charge of the nation lmao 🤣
Is winning by cheating winning?
Do you have actual proof? Did you denounce it to the authorities? Hell, have you taken this proof to the press? I’m sure everyone would love to hear and see about it!
What is funny is this is everything Aotus did when Biden won. Guess what? We didn’t love to hear about the massive voter fraud he claimed and was unable to prove. Strange that when he won suddenly no problems with voting.
You would have to live under a rock to come up with these double standards. I would like to see someone take proof of gerrymandering to Faux News to see what they do about it. Oh yeah, absolutely nothing.
They know. They are complicit! Gerry mandering, voter suppression getting rid of polling locations in black neighborhoods. Making it illegal to give water to those waiting to vote. Trump saying something about elon knowing these machine very well. Removing people from voter registration. I’m sure there is more. If you are unaware of these things you are living under a rock.
So then what makes the presidency?
I knew that this was going to happen as soon as they started purging voter rolls and passing draconian voter suppression laws after Trump lost. Biden just barely beat Trump in 2020, so all they had to do was give Trump a little bump - a few thousand votes nullified here or there would win him a whole state. The media focus in 2020 was on the “historic turnout”, but how many of those were covid mail-in ballots that red states didn’t allow this time? How many people showed up on election day ready to vote for Kamala only to get turned away because they weren’t on the registry even though they voted in 2020?
Republicans cheated in more than one way this time, and we got screwed because we failed to stop it early.
We all know. Nothing was or will be done. Now they can rig it from the inside. Was a fun run!
Democrats had the opportunity to fix this when they were in office. They chose to protect the filibuster instead.
Re post text: For context, Washington state is mail-only voting, so that number would (I assume) be for all votes, not just specifically requested mail-ins. I didn’t see it in the article, but I wonder if that is predominantly “centralized” or “distributed” in nature; i.e. are technically-valid ballots from all voters being incorrectly rejected by the county elections facilities office at different rates across racial lines, or are there other factors like targeted disinformation, education, local infrastructure, or socioeconomics that disproportionately affect Black (or other types of minority) voters that would make them more likely to produce a technically-invalid ballot?
Those might get the same statistic, but would seem to indicate very different sorts of problems and approaches.
You can vote in-person in Washington if you want to, if you lost your ballot, etc. Also, I think most people here use the drop boxes rather than their mailbox. If not most, still quite a lot.
While voter suppression exists, voter suppression didn’t make safe blue states go down 2 digits of percentage.
Its the propaganda that did it. Money won. Unlimited money to throw at the propaganda manifacturing, won (thanks to citizens united)
Voter suppression includes manipulating people into not voting, such as “both sides are the same” and “your one vote doesn’t matter”. I’d probably include pushing people to vote for non-serious third parties, although it may not technically be “voter suppression”.
Imagine not doing your work as a president for 4 years in order to manipulate to not vote for you LMAO 🤣
The perma stun proceeds at pace
get the fuck out of here with this horseshit
both parties Democrats and Republicans both use voter suppression based on what their check writers want
for example there is bipartisan efforts to keep United States citizens locked up for a list of nonviolent offences such as Bidens tough crime bills and now immigrants and women are on the list too
the education system is also used to suppress votes - no democracy without a properly funded education system
bipartisan effort to keep the minimum wage at $7.25 is another way to suppress votes - tired, overworked people do not vote with an informed healthy mind thus subverting democracy more
state of healthcare is another way voters are suppressed - health people would not vote for the current state of things
the politicians’ check writers also suppress by controlling the media that is consumed along with the entirety of culture deleting content as needed to keep us in line
and the list goes on we need to throw both parties out and start fresh
While many of those things may effect people’s ability to vote, how many of them target republican voters? I’m pretty sure that’s what “this shit” that you want them to “fuck out of here with” is talking about.
Reading through their list I can think of specific examples for each point on each side (except the education point though that may be more local or referring to something less specific i.e. religious charter school support) - though that isn’t to imply equality. On most of these points Republicans are pretty clearly worse generally speaking…
Still, I think it was an interesting comment because, while a lot of people dismissed it out of hand, it isn’t wrong to highlight that both sides are guilty of all (except education) these things and to excise this rot will take a lot of effort.
Both parties this both parties that, why don’t you try using both sides of your own brain.
Funny how all the bipartisan stuff they mention truly is Republican stuff…
Because both parties use voter suppression to their advantage
I guess the 78 voters suppression laws red states introduced is exactly the same as the 0 suppression laws blue states introduced.
well, leftists/squad progressives did tell all the young democrats not to vote for Joe/Kamala, so they didn’t vote. with litteraly everything at stake, having already lost things like federally protected safe abortion access. you know who did turn out, young people, arab americans, and latino americans who voted for trump, think that made up ~ 2.3% and the differece between the young people who didn’t vote democrat and the “new republicans” tilted the balance in the swing states? nah, probably not, right. do they call that a phyrric victory? no that’s egyptian. anyway, congratulations to everyone who marched on every major us city, and took over campus commons across the nation in the spring and summer of an election year, chanting “from the river to the sea”. i wonder if that scared the bezeezus outta just middle america or all of it. nah, probably had nothing to do with it. anyway, enjoy your victory over “genocide joe” (kamala) folks
Are these progressives who told people not to vote for Biden or Harris in the room with us right now?
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/297de20b-14f2-4651-be4a-8d3259719cac.png
Here’s one right here. I’ll keep going back through my comment history because I’ve interacted with quite a few “progressives” who found Biden’s policy to be inadequate were ok with Trump’s genocide policy nothing to worry about.
You think some British radio host who isn’t big enough to have his own Wikipedia page was a significant influence on US elections? I can’t even find enough info on this dude to determine what his political views are and whether he self-identities as “progressive” or not.
Every progressive politician in the US was trying to get as many anti-Trump votes as possible.
Apologies it was supposed to be a link to the lemmy post of this screenshot not just the image, because there were enough people who were complaining about biden’s policy but conveniently ignoring trumps genocide accelerationist policy on the post itself. Seems like the copy link button on jerboa is a bit funky.
Once again, a bunch of bots, trolls, astroturfers anonymously posting and maybe claiming to be progressive on the internet. If you fell for it that’s on you.
I didn’t fall for it, I voted blue straight down my ballot on election day, but all these bots, trolls and astroturfers convinced a lot of other people to stay home on election day.
So yes here is an example of those “progressives” dissuading people from voting “in the room with us.” Doesn’t matter if they’re bots and trolls, they masqueraded as vaguely progressive and convinced people to stay home on election day. If they were legitimately progressive or astroturf, the end result is the same, the party of accelerated genocide ended up with the presidency, the house, senate and Judiciary.
Oh just a hint but the “are the XYZs in the room with us” line is supposed to be about sarcastically pointing out something doesnt exist and isn’t easily proven to actually exist.
Oh just a hint but the “are the XYZs in the room with us” line is supposed to be about sarcastically pointing out something doesnt exist and isn’t easily proven to actually exist.
Luckily, all you have to do is point to anyone who doesn’t love your genocide and scream that they’re a russian.
Oh lots trying to wedge drive. The Stein and uncommitted voters were a big presence. Many of them have very quickly shut up since the election. Golly, how curious.
I disagree. I see the pro-Palestine comments as pretty constant. What I have seen a rise of is of comments from liberals gleefully celebrating the plight of the Palestinians.s
It’s a good thing their odds are so much better under Donald then, huh.
I’m sure he’ll listen to their grievances, amirite?
Also I’m sure they’ll care more about Putin’s ongoing genocide in Ukraine, yes? As Trump suspends all future aid not already allocated to Ukraine, it doesn’t look good, Cotton.
If you’re on a Lemmy instance, you bet your ass they are
leftists/squad progressives did tell all the young democrats not to vote for Joe/Kamala
Interestingly, people can self-identify however they want! I didn’t see a meaningful amount of genuine progressives telling people not to vote. There’s speculation that foreign disinformation spread the sentiment of “protest voting” and stirred shit up.
However. Whatever the case, people need to take personal responsibility. You decide what type of information to consume and how to vet it (if you even do). And you are to blame if you decided not to vote or threw it away on an inviable 3rd-party candidate.
I don’t get this repeated talking point. Do you just want people to say you were right? Do you want to quash discussion of politics?
I have a feeling that comments like these, that point backward with blame and promote hopelessness, are foreign disinformation.
They are pointless. Help or get out of the way.
Do you just want people to say you were right?
They want all criticism from their left and only their left to be silent forever.
I suspect these people are astroturfers purposefully trying to stay in the way.
It’s always “funny” when people act like systemic racism is some reformable problem rather than a major foundation of the entire system.
The system of humanity.
It is not natural to be racist.
In-group out-group bias is very unfortunately ingrained into our brains.
Very natural to be afraid of things you don’t know/can’t control
Racism is a product of people exploiting that
It’s actually very natural to form in/out groups. The issue is getting the species as a whole to overcome it.
In/out groups are natural, but the establishment of those groups on ‘racial’ lines is totally constructed. The concept of race itself doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, it’s a fixation on specific phenotypic traits.
Notice how racial bias is fixated on skin color while other phenotypic differences are largely ignored; people with different colored eyes or hair, different nose shapes, different hair textures, etc. 400 years ago skin tone was similarly trivial, but that changed with the rise of chattel slavery.
This is what I was trying to say but didn’t have the foresight to elaborate and that seems to have earned me some downvotes lol
The core tenet of tribalism is “They aren’t like us.” That might be based on skin color, hair type, clothing, smell (from different diets), behavior. Modern racism (from the last couple hundred years) likely has some elements of more traditional tribalism with relaxed standards so the people a few hundred miles away can start to wrap their heads around the idea that Irish, for instance, are more or less the same as British.
I do hope people can get to the idea that anyone from a given point on this planet (so far) is just a person and not an outsider, but it looks like we have a way to go.
The core tenet of tribalism is “They aren’t like us.” That might be based on skin color, hair type, clothing, smell (from different diets), behavior.
That’s just not accurate. Its historically been cultural, not phenotypes.
Prisoners of war, which were different skin colors, tended to be accepted into the group once they adapted the captor’s customs.
For the last 200 years, a significant amount of slavery has been limited to certain phenotypes. I agree that prior to that, it was less prevalent. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a historical model of slavery based on phenotype, it’s just more recent history.
On the other hand, the Irish were enslaved by the British centuries before any Africans were. And it’s not because they had no contact. Everyone in Europe who had any power and influence was aware of Mansa Musa, and there were plenty of Sub-Saharan Africans in Iberia and other parts of the Caliphate in Europe.
Being black was just not the liability it eventually became. Being nearby but in a different country was a much bigger one.
So do nothing?
What would you suggest people do about this now that America is a fascist dictatorship?
This conversation is so frustrating to witness. Particularly because I remember you were such a strong proponent of Harris though the election cycle, which suggest you have political sense enough to care and know things are bad, but now that the cards are different your plan is to disconnect and feel hopeless? If you truly believe that America is a fascist dictatorship, and realize that we have the largest military in the world, don’t you feel moral imperative to at least try? If the solution you were striving for didn’t work, why is your next move give up rather than look to something like black radical thought, which has for much longer being explaining how the solutions to these problems don’t come with ballots.
I literally asked what is suggested people do.
Am I supposed to come up with the answer myself? Because I’m extremely stupid, so that isn’t going to happen. I wish people would realize that.
I literally asked what is suggested people do.
I feel like this is an obtuse description. There are better ways to ask what should be done that do not read as defeatist if you’re genuine.
No one is expecting you to come up with solutions, that’s why I recommended black radical thought, as these are folks that have been on the front line of fighting and experiencing America’s decent into fascism.
Well I’m sorry I didn’t ask what should be done the right way, but I still have no idea what to be done.
Please tell me how I am supposed to ask what people suggest other than asking them what they suggest.
For fuck’s sake, all I want is an answer. You sure as hell aren’t giving me one.
I can see you’re upset, but genuinely, I think it leads to a better community on lemmy in general to approach with good faith. The point overall being, if you are asking in earnest, and are hoping for answers about what possible way forward we have, I would hope that you recognize that there are better ways to communicate that. I’m sorry it’s upsetting that certain langue is interpreted differently, even if the core is the same, but it’s the reality.
Given that reality, being upfront about your worries and feelings of helplessness is valid and helps to connect rather than dismiss. With that, expressing the lack of knowledge as a personal aspect, rather than framing the exhausting of options you’re aware of as the end of all options, would help show that you are looking for whatever is next.
As for ‘an answer’, it’s not something I can easily give because these are complex issues. The reality is it can’t be distilled down to “Get out and vote” because the problems extend beyond that, and any real answer that match that simplicity would along the lines of “organize” but I assume like me, you’d find that sort of broad advice hollow.
I can’t say what you should do because it depends on your local politics, what you’re able to commit, where your politics sit, and ultimately what you think your place would be in whatever is done. With that I recommend black radical thought because I find it best encompasses the tools needed to learn for the reasons I mentioned. Along side learning, I think reaching out to local political groups for work that can be done would be a great way to see what options and opportunists marginalized folks are making for themselves.
In short, if you fear for the well-being of, black/brown, indigenous, immigrant, queer, or everyone else that will suffer under the coming wave of fascism, do as Mr Rogers says and look for the helpers, and if you can, help them.
This article is in desperate need of citations and a public revelation of the calculations involved. It also has problems. I can’t speak to other states but where it does mention Pennsylvania, where I live, it omits critical information.
In Pennsylvania (19 electoral votes), the Poison Postcards wiped out 360,132 voters, three times Trump’s victory margin.
These don’t get sent out for fun. This is how the ordinary voter roll maintenance works. The cards are sent out after you fail to vote two consecutive federal elections, or when the department of state gets notified you moved or died through some other means, not for ‘targeting’ voters. You only actually get purged from the roll if you fail to respond to the card AND fail to vote for at least five consecutive years (This isn’t specified as far as I know, but a product of the timings involved). If you show up and vote in every presidential election, you do not get removed from the rolls even if you throw out the postcard. So if this:
According to the EAC data, before the 2024 election, 4,776,706 registrants were removed nationwide simply because they failed to return the postcard.
Includes Pennsylvania, it is simply false. You can read the actual law yourself, they are all online. It’s PA Title 25. Chapter 19 lays out the rules for removal.
Details on Pennsylvania specific mail-in ballots being cancelled, which is a real issue, are woefully absent. According to the Governor’s office only about 1% of the 2 million returned (about 20,000) mail in ballots were rejected.
Of the roughly 1% of mail ballots rejected in the 2024 general election, the most common reasons for rejection were:
receipt after the 8 p.m. deadline on Election Day (33%), incorrect or missing date (23%), lack of a signature (17%), and lack of a secrecy envelope (15%).
Harris lost by ~120,000 ish votes in PA. ‘Clerical errors’ are not even close to closing that gap.
It also mentions Secretaries of State being partisan hacks, but some odd reason fails to mention Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State was appointed by our Democratic governor who was not only a Democrat, obviously, but short listed for consideration as a running mate for Harris. Nevertheless, it is implied we should concerned about his Secretary of State targeting voters from her own party for removal in an election that could have had handed the governor his own path to the White House. Forgive me for my skepticism.
Voter suppression is a big deal, I’m sure there are elections it will swing at times. Heck, there is a fair chance it swung the senate race in PA since that one was only decided by ~15,000 votes, but based on what I already know, this article isn’t credible enough to be taken seriously in its current state.
Upvoting before mods delete this for going against their zeitgeist
I keep seeing a lot of arguments along the lines of “they can’t have done that, that’s against the law.”
**Republicans do not care about the rule of law. ** They loudly and repeatedly flaunt this at every opportunity. The entire reason we keep having to talk about this is because of how loudly and repeatedly they prove they are willing to break any law in order to win. The law does not matter, it is toilet paper, it does not stop them. That’s the whole REASON we are all up in arms about this in the FIRST place.
Your argument is a nonsensical one. You’ve illustrated the way the Poison Postcard is supposed to work, absolutely. But did it actually follow those rules? In some places like Texas and Georgia, that answer is a booming, resounding, FUCK NO they didn’t. So what about elsewhere then?
In some places like Texas and Georgia, that answer is a booming, resounding, FUCK NO they didn’t.
I can’t speak to other states but where it does mention Pennsylvania, where I live, it omits critical information.
I’m supposed to believe that hundreds of thousands of Democratic Pennsylvania voters were illegally unregistered and denied their right to vote while democratic county election officials, county attorneys, the governor’s office, the state attorney general’s office, the department of state and many civic/legal orgs all just sat on their hands because of an article whose demonstration of fact taps out at “Trust me bro, I did the math.”
But my argument that we need to see the sources and math is “nonsensical”?
Fuck off.
Based
An award winng investigative journalist who has spent at least the last 25 years looking into this type of behaviour isn’t credible?
this article isn’t credible enough to be taken seriously in its current state.
One lesson 2020 should have taught everyone and that’s vote by mail WORKS.
Lifting the restrictions on vote by mail for Covid won the election for Biden, and replacing those restrictions in 2024 lost it for Harris.
We should have 100% vote by mail in all states.
One lesson 2020 should have taught everyone and that’s vote by mail WORKS.
It was a lesson national administrators learned. That’s why it was heavily clawed back. 2020 was a big year for Popular Socialist Candidates. Neither party enjoyed a wave year that included The Squad and put a guy like Bernie Sanders in arm’s reach of Biden after Super Tuesday.
We should have 100% vote by mail in all states.
Republicans have been outspoken in opposition to mail-in voting, particularly for younger college-aged voters. But even Dems are lackluster in their support for full enfranchisement, on the grounds that higher participation tends to make controlling primaries more difficult and expensive (the NY-14 upset by AOC being a classic example).
vote by mail WORKS.
Which is why red states didn’t want to use it. Can’t stay in power if you don’t suppress votes.
That’s some thorough analysis, holy cow…
