One day maybe I’ll understand why people are fine with package managers that have you sweat if you’re updating whenever the heck you want rather than often and with a second pair of eyes on the news
There are too many in the Linux dev community who cling to their old concepts, even if they are objectively worse. Hell, 99% of distros still don’t even come with disaster recovery preconfigured; OpenSuse are the only ones I know where you don’t need to be a professional to revert back to a working state in case something broke. This conservatism as well as elitism (nobody needs the new stuff if everyone just gets good and becomes a CLI magician, right?) in the community is holding us back horribly, and it shows.
I don’t feel like that’s much of an issue, new people are usually introduced to the easier and more robust options. There’s nothing wrong in how other distros operate, just that the community shouldn’t feel compelled to suggest them to people they can presume aren’t the target audience
I’m talking about the Linux ecosystem as a whole. You can always only get a few good things, but no distro ticks literally all possible boxes. Mint is really close, yet they decided to embrace the objectively worse .deb package system over Flatpaks and still got no proper disaster recovery like OpenSuse does (something that should be an imperative especially for “beginner” distros).
Or as another example, Gnome devs acticely decided against overhauling their extension system in favour of more stable solutions that’d allow extensions to gracefully crash instead of crashing your whole desktop. No, apparently monkey-patching is totally fine because (I assume) radical developer freedom is better than stability for millions of people.
I’m so fed up with people who’ll then proceed to defend what they rightfully love and tell me it was easy to get out of that! People just gotta learn to use the CLI, lol! 🫠
That’s what I criticize.
Oh yeah, I see what you mean better, I think there is a good trend nowadays though, for example what do you say is missing from openSUSE to make it tick all boxes for you?
Well yeah let’s elaborate on that. Merriam-Webster defines elitism as
Leadership or ruled by an elite
The selectivity of the elite
Consciousness of being or belonging to an elite.
That comment was suggesting open source tools while you’re posting in an open source social media platform in a community that is geared towards open source software. Please explain how that comment fits the definition above. It’s not elitist to assume that you’ve heard of git if you’re posting here. Someone suggesting something to you is not elitist just because it doesn’t work for you.
I don’t think I’m better than you because I know git or nix, but I do know that in the right circumstances, knowing how to use git or nix is a very valuable tool. I would love to help you solve your problems with these tools if given the opportunity. When a member of the community finds a tool they love, they just want to help others and suggest what worked for them. You really think that’s elitist attitude?
sigh point 2 fits perfectly. The wider Linux community is full of people who’s openly oust you if you if you don’t know certain things or, beware, do not want to have to learn using a CLI but simply wish for GUI tools (in flippin’ 2025!). The elite here are people who like to tinker with tech, or rather those with certain knowledge the broader public doesn’t possess.
On the other side are people who got other priorities than learning about the insides of an operating system, who get alienated by people who expect them to become CLI magicians as well because “it’s easy”. Completely ignoring how utterly lost most people feel at that moment.
Everything you said after that is rhetorical bullshit that’s also very common in the community and literally the reason I saw dozens of non-techy people reject Linux-based OS’ after they encountered their first issue and looked for help. You’re twisting my criticism of systemic issues in a way it looks like a personal failure of myself, because that’s something / someone you can argue against. Your last few sentences are also shifting the goalpost, I never spoke about that exact behaviour you’re describing there.
One day maybe I’ll understand why people are fine with package managers that have you sweat if you’re updating whenever the heck you want rather than often and with a second pair of eyes on the news
There are too many in the Linux dev community who cling to their old concepts, even if they are objectively worse. Hell, 99% of distros still don’t even come with disaster recovery preconfigured; OpenSuse are the only ones I know where you don’t need to be a professional to revert back to a working state in case something broke. This conservatism as well as elitism (nobody needs the new stuff if everyone just gets good and becomes a CLI magician, right?) in the community is holding us back horribly, and it shows.
I don’t feel like that’s much of an issue, new people are usually introduced to the easier and more robust options. There’s nothing wrong in how other distros operate, just that the community shouldn’t feel compelled to suggest them to people they can presume aren’t the target audience
I’m talking about the Linux ecosystem as a whole. You can always only get a few good things, but no distro ticks literally all possible boxes. Mint is really close, yet they decided to embrace the objectively worse .deb package system over Flatpaks and still got no proper disaster recovery like OpenSuse does (something that should be an imperative especially for “beginner” distros). Or as another example, Gnome devs acticely decided against overhauling their extension system in favour of more stable solutions that’d allow extensions to gracefully crash instead of crashing your whole desktop. No, apparently monkey-patching is totally fine because (I assume) radical developer freedom is better than stability for millions of people. I’m so fed up with people who’ll then proceed to defend what they rightfully love and tell me it was easy to get out of that! People just gotta learn to use the CLI, lol! 🫠 That’s what I criticize.
Oh yeah, I see what you mean better, I think there is a good trend nowadays though, for example what do you say is missing from openSUSE to make it tick all boxes for you?
With nix it’s easy to revert, if you keep your previous config. Version it with git and it’s really easy.
“It’s easy with tool that requires extensive knowledge. Do it with another tool that requires extensive knowledge and it’s even easier.”
You just showed everyone the elitism I was talking about, thank you.
You talked about linux devs not embracing change and then promptly shit on NixOS for not understanding it lol
I also talked about elitism, lol.
Well yeah let’s elaborate on that. Merriam-Webster defines elitism as
That comment was suggesting open source tools while you’re posting in an open source social media platform in a community that is geared towards open source software. Please explain how that comment fits the definition above. It’s not elitist to assume that you’ve heard of git if you’re posting here. Someone suggesting something to you is not elitist just because it doesn’t work for you.
I don’t think I’m better than you because I know git or nix, but I do know that in the right circumstances, knowing how to use git or nix is a very valuable tool. I would love to help you solve your problems with these tools if given the opportunity. When a member of the community finds a tool they love, they just want to help others and suggest what worked for them. You really think that’s elitist attitude?
sigh point 2 fits perfectly. The wider Linux community is full of people who’s openly oust you if you if you don’t know certain things or, beware, do not want to have to learn using a CLI but simply wish for GUI tools (in flippin’ 2025!). The elite here are people who like to tinker with tech, or rather those with certain knowledge the broader public doesn’t possess. On the other side are people who got other priorities than learning about the insides of an operating system, who get alienated by people who expect them to become CLI magicians as well because “it’s easy”. Completely ignoring how utterly lost most people feel at that moment.
Everything you said after that is rhetorical bullshit that’s also very common in the community and literally the reason I saw dozens of non-techy people reject Linux-based OS’ after they encountered their first issue and looked for help. You’re twisting my criticism of systemic issues in a way it looks like a personal failure of myself, because that’s something / someone you can argue against. Your last few sentences are also shifting the goalpost, I never spoke about that exact behaviour you’re describing there.
I’m done with this BS, bye.