Heading into the November presidential election, one of the biggest issues on voters' minds is the economy. According to a new poll, 73% of Americans say strengthening it is their top concern.
The broader problem with adhering to those metrics as a gauge for economic output is that it assumes things across the board move up or down together within a reasonable margin, when you and I both know that certain groups fair way better than the average, a big portion of economic growth not even reflected in wages at all, and some are falling off the bottom of the graph entirely. Taking an average wage doesn’t tell you anything about the long-term stability of individuals. A greater and greater number of people are having to rent because they’re being priced out of home ownership, and even if that isn’t reflected in rent prices now it still means that asset-backed capital is being held by a smaller and smaller number of people. That doesn’t mean much to CPI but it means everything to upward mobility and generational wealth transfer.
I’m not even trying to paint a bleak picture in service of saying it’s all Biden’s fault, it’s been the default economic schema for decades. I’m saying its disingenuous to point to those metrics when you know they aren’t the ones that of the most concern to individuals who see no future for themselves and their families. It’s not all Biden’s fault, but he’s currently the one enacting those policies that have slowly degraded economic mobility for 80 years. “But you’re wages are marginally higher!” doesn’t mean much when the cost of home ownership has been outpacing median income since the 1970s..
Things being marginally better for the average American under Biden doesn’t mean anything when the average American has been almost completely left behind over the course of 50+ years.
It’s not all Biden’s fault, but he’s currently the one enacting those policies that have slowly degraded economic mobility for 80 years.
This is where it breaks down for me. All the rest of it, I pretty much agree with completely. But Biden’s been busting his ass to strengthen unions, bring domestic manufacturing back, and make corporations pay their fair share. He routed like a trillion dollars from corporations to working people, and it had a little tiny bump of an effect, and it may be a few drops in the bucket but it’s still a good thing. They’re making about 35% more (un inflation adjusted) than they were before. If we weren’t still digging out from Covid inflation it would have been an economic revolution, but even as it is, they’re comfortably clearing over the 20% inflation and getting a tiny bit more breathing room.
If you want to extrapolate from that statement to “but rent is a huge missing piece of that, with specific things he should be doing to address that, too” then sure. I’d 100% agree with you. But, on the other hand, if you want to extrapolate to “and so none of that union stuff happened and he’s still a piece of shit just like all the generations of politicians that created the gilded age nightmare we’ve been drowning in ever since 2008/1995/1980/whenever”, then I’ll disagree with you.
Maybe you aren’t saying that second thing, and I’m angling a certain amount of heat at you because there are other people who are, and it’s easy to become tribal about this type of disagreement. But, that’s how I feel about it.
strengthen unions, bring domestic manufacturing back, and make corporations pay their fair share.
That’s what I mean though, those things aren’t the problem. They fit within that neoliberal economic picture really well but it doesn’t address the declining state of middle class’ economic stability. We’ve been operating under the assumption that when our productive output is high, everyone benefits (which is why bringing manufacturing stateside is valuable), but over the last couple decades those jobs have had a steep decline in quality (it used to be that a manufacturing job could support a family of 5, but that’s just not the case anymore) due to automation and the relative productivity of capital against the productivity of an individual worker. We’d have to continue consuming well beyond a sustainable level in order to produce enough manufacturing jobs for everyone, and those jobs just aren’t as good as they used to be. Even union protections are ultimately just a finger in the dam, when fewer and fewer jobs are needed for higher and higher output. And none of that picture addresses home ownership and generational wealth transfer.
Things are as good as they can be without fundamentally challenging the neoliberal economic hegemony, but that’s exactly the problem with the picture. Those metrics suit that way of thinking but they simply don’t address the reasons why the American public is struggling.
I’m just so sick of seeing these accomplishments paraded around as if they address the problems normal people are actually facing. You’re going to be chanting “things are really great actually!” as we all get chased out of the country by a nationalist movement driven by economic disenfranchisement. We can’t keep doing this.
Right, I know. This is a fundamental disagreement in how we see “the right economy” and the right type of structure for a country.
Honestly, I don’t even really have a problem with what you’re saying here. I think the answer to the problem you’re describing is strong unions to be able to claw back the fruits of all those gains in productivity for the working class, pretty much by force, and then a democratic-enough government in place that it won’t squash or undo that whole effort on behalf of capital. That’s very different from anything we currently have.
I think that the US economy as it existed for white people between about 1940-1970 was a very clear example of how things can work well, and if we could deploy that, extended to all races instead of just the whites, and replacing oppression of the third world on a massive scale with technological improvements, I think that would be good.
One thing incredibly notable to me about that FDR economy that I like, is that it didn’t come from some political class coming down from above and saying “here you go we fixed it” – it only was able to happen because people banded together into unions and fought multiple generations’ worth of literal bloody battle to demand the type of economy they deserved, and then after the fact the politicians took credit for having “given” it all to them. But whatever.
I don’t really expect you to agree with me on that, but I don’t have the type of intense disagreement with you if you’re saying that Biden isn’t putting us on track for real communism which is what’s required. My real intense disagreements are reserved for other people who are pretending that Biden is doing a Clinton-style neoliberal betrayal of even my preferred within-the-capitalistic-model progress, and so even people who want that FDR economy should vote against him.
The broader problem with adhering to those metrics as a gauge for economic output is that it assumes things across the board move up or down together within a reasonable margin, when you and I both know that certain groups fair way better than the average, a big portion of economic growth not even reflected in wages at all, and some are falling off the bottom of the graph entirely. Taking an average wage doesn’t tell you anything about the long-term stability of individuals. A greater and greater number of people are having to rent because they’re being priced out of home ownership, and even if that isn’t reflected in rent prices now it still means that asset-backed capital is being held by a smaller and smaller number of people. That doesn’t mean much to CPI but it means everything to upward mobility and generational wealth transfer.
I’m not even trying to paint a bleak picture in service of saying it’s all Biden’s fault, it’s been the default economic schema for decades. I’m saying its disingenuous to point to those metrics when you know they aren’t the ones that of the most concern to individuals who see no future for themselves and their families. It’s not all Biden’s fault, but he’s currently the one enacting those policies that have slowly degraded economic mobility for 80 years. “But you’re wages are marginally higher!” doesn’t mean much when the cost of home ownership has been outpacing median income since the 1970s..
Things being marginally better for the average American under Biden doesn’t mean anything when the average American has been almost completely left behind over the course of 50+ years.
This is where it breaks down for me. All the rest of it, I pretty much agree with completely. But Biden’s been busting his ass to strengthen unions, bring domestic manufacturing back, and make corporations pay their fair share. He routed like a trillion dollars from corporations to working people, and it had a little tiny bump of an effect, and it may be a few drops in the bucket but it’s still a good thing. They’re making about 35% more (un inflation adjusted) than they were before. If we weren’t still digging out from Covid inflation it would have been an economic revolution, but even as it is, they’re comfortably clearing over the 20% inflation and getting a tiny bit more breathing room.
If you want to extrapolate from that statement to “but rent is a huge missing piece of that, with specific things he should be doing to address that, too” then sure. I’d 100% agree with you. But, on the other hand, if you want to extrapolate to “and so none of that union stuff happened and he’s still a piece of shit just like all the generations of politicians that created the gilded age nightmare we’ve been drowning in ever since 2008/1995/1980/whenever”, then I’ll disagree with you.
Maybe you aren’t saying that second thing, and I’m angling a certain amount of heat at you because there are other people who are, and it’s easy to become tribal about this type of disagreement. But, that’s how I feel about it.
That’s what I mean though, those things aren’t the problem. They fit within that neoliberal economic picture really well but it doesn’t address the declining state of middle class’ economic stability. We’ve been operating under the assumption that when our productive output is high, everyone benefits (which is why bringing manufacturing stateside is valuable), but over the last couple decades those jobs have had a steep decline in quality (it used to be that a manufacturing job could support a family of 5, but that’s just not the case anymore) due to automation and the relative productivity of capital against the productivity of an individual worker. We’d have to continue consuming well beyond a sustainable level in order to produce enough manufacturing jobs for everyone, and those jobs just aren’t as good as they used to be. Even union protections are ultimately just a finger in the dam, when fewer and fewer jobs are needed for higher and higher output. And none of that picture addresses home ownership and generational wealth transfer.
Things are as good as they can be without fundamentally challenging the neoliberal economic hegemony, but that’s exactly the problem with the picture. Those metrics suit that way of thinking but they simply don’t address the reasons why the American public is struggling.
I’m just so sick of seeing these accomplishments paraded around as if they address the problems normal people are actually facing. You’re going to be chanting “things are really great actually!” as we all get chased out of the country by a nationalist movement driven by economic disenfranchisement. We can’t keep doing this.
Right, I know. This is a fundamental disagreement in how we see “the right economy” and the right type of structure for a country.
Honestly, I don’t even really have a problem with what you’re saying here. I think the answer to the problem you’re describing is strong unions to be able to claw back the fruits of all those gains in productivity for the working class, pretty much by force, and then a democratic-enough government in place that it won’t squash or undo that whole effort on behalf of capital. That’s very different from anything we currently have.
I think that the US economy as it existed for white people between about 1940-1970 was a very clear example of how things can work well, and if we could deploy that, extended to all races instead of just the whites, and replacing oppression of the third world on a massive scale with technological improvements, I think that would be good.
One thing incredibly notable to me about that FDR economy that I like, is that it didn’t come from some political class coming down from above and saying “here you go we fixed it” – it only was able to happen because people banded together into unions and fought multiple generations’ worth of literal bloody battle to demand the type of economy they deserved, and then after the fact the politicians took credit for having “given” it all to them. But whatever.
I don’t really expect you to agree with me on that, but I don’t have the type of intense disagreement with you if you’re saying that Biden isn’t putting us on track for real communism which is what’s required. My real intense disagreements are reserved for other people who are pretending that Biden is doing a Clinton-style neoliberal betrayal of even my preferred within-the-capitalistic-model progress, and so even people who want that FDR economy should vote against him.