It’s not being caused by the ones providing weapons, but the attackers though?
Are you the kind of people that thells people not to help the bullied kid against the bully because it will just make them take more hits? Just surrender to the bully, easy.
Thing is, a total military defeat of Russia has seemed very unlikely for all the duration of the conflict. It’s been ongoing for more than two years, and the only results so far are more Ukrainian territories occupied, and more death and destruction. Peace negotiations should be kept open at all times, and it should be up to Ukrainian people to decide the terms they agree to. Sadly, it has surfaced in an investigation from Foreign Affairs that some western powers like the UK or the US pushed Ukraine to stay in the war, for reasons that we can only speculate about. So, what’s the best course of action now?
“Um yes I understand that one side is a genocidal dictatorship which invaded unprovoked and the other side is a democratic state whose primary wish is not to be genocided, but let’s not divide this into good and evil!”
It’s insane what distances people will go to simp for fascism.
It’s rather misleading to portray Ukraine as a democracy in any sense of the word, but I’m curious as to which fascist state you’re immediately convinced I’m simping for here. Is it perhaps my own country, which I’ve watched debase its entire population with the plague of Christianity, authoritarianism and anti-“wokeness” into a horrifying type of zombie that still has the audacity to call itself a Russian “person”, all just to distract us from 200% cumulative inflation in 12 years that has reduced the horizon of planning of most of its people to one week, with the state replacing the notion of “law” with “obedience” in the process to polarize every living thing that has a brain?
I do not operate under the terms “the saviors” and “the baddies”, nor do I believe that the US should cease military aid to Ukraine. I’m just committed to dispelling the image of normalcy that a “good vs evil” portrayal creates.
It’s rather misleading to portray Ukraine as a democracy in any sense of the word,
How bizarre.
I do not operate under the terms “the saviors” and “the baddies”, nor do I believe that the US should cease military aid to Ukraine. I’m just committed to dispelling the image of normalcy that a “good vs evil” portrayal creates.
Well, this might be controversial, but most people regard “A nation not wanting to be genocided” as pretty anodyne, and “Government wanting to commit genocide” as pretty evil, so you’ll have to forgive me for not finding your “Um aktually” statements all that compelling in light of this situation, which is one of the least morally ambiguous conflicts of the 21st century.
I wholeheartedly agree with the moral character of Ukraine’s self defense. What I don’t agree with, however, is the moral character of the US, a supplier of “aid” that never gives anything to anyone for free.
I once again inquire what fascist state you were so unbelievably convinced I was simping for.
I wholeheartedly agree with the moral character of Ukraine’s self defense.
How curious, because you began by stating
to think this conflict involves “the good guys” in some way is laughable
It’s almost like a classic motte-and-bailey argument.
What I don’t agree with, however, is the moral character of the US, a supplier of “aid” that never gives anything to anyone for free.
Yes, here we have the horrible motivation of [checks notes] not wanting Ukraine, a country who we have fairly close ties with, annexed by an authoritarian dictatorship who constantly causes trouble for us. Truly, we are vile opportunists here.
I once again inquire what fascist state you were so unbelievably convinced I was simping for.
Russia. And if you believe this conflict is something best described in ‘shades of gray’, then I still regard you as simping for Russia, in the same way that Juche apologists sometimes admit fault with North Korea, but always immediately pivot to “But South Korea Just As Bad™”. Playing “Bothsides!” games is old hat. It’s been overused. No one falls for it anymore. Sorry.
I do think that the substance of our disagreement here is minute and the “no good side” statement I opened this with is far from the best way of wording what I was referring to here. Please note, however, that at no point did I bring “shades of gray” or “both sides equally bad” into the conversation, and that the antagonistic nature of your gotcha is deeply reductive, insensitive and automated.
I’m sorry, I’ll be more sensitive to people who parrot the same narratives that genocidal states in the process of committing genocide do in the future. Especially considering your assertion that Ukraine isn’t a democratic state ‘in any sense of the word’, which is definitely rooted in reality and totally not a line pushed by Russian propaganda.
Maybe next time I find an Israel supporter who insists on the ‘complexity’ of the ongoing Gaza genocide I’ll give them an asspat and a kiss on the cheek instead of my usual “What the fuck is wrong with you?”
Those damn imperialists providing weapons to a sovereign country in order to protect itself from it’s imperialist neighbor trying to annex it!
I don’t think Russian imperial warfare in Ukraine is necessarily contradictory with American imperial interest in Ukraine
to think this conflict involves “the good guys” in some way is laughable
Multiple things can be true. Both of these claims are true.
It benefits NATO countries to curb the expansion of a rival power without losing a single soldier.
Assisting in a sovereign country in resisting annexation by a genocidal occupier is a good thing.
You don’t always have to suffer to help someone else, some situations can be win-win.
If you forget all the death and destruction caused by this war, then yes. I’m sure it’s very profitable.
It’s not being caused by the ones providing weapons, but the attackers though?
Are you the kind of people that thells people not to help the bullied kid against the bully because it will just make them take more hits? Just surrender to the bully, easy.
Thing is, a total military defeat of Russia has seemed very unlikely for all the duration of the conflict. It’s been ongoing for more than two years, and the only results so far are more Ukrainian territories occupied, and more death and destruction. Peace negotiations should be kept open at all times, and it should be up to Ukrainian people to decide the terms they agree to. Sadly, it has surfaced in an investigation from Foreign Affairs that some western powers like the UK or the US pushed Ukraine to stay in the war, for reasons that we can only speculate about. So, what’s the best course of action now?
“Um yes I understand that one side is a genocidal dictatorship which invaded unprovoked and the other side is a democratic state whose primary wish is not to be genocided, but let’s not divide this into good and evil!”
It’s insane what distances people will go to simp for fascism.
It’s rather misleading to portray Ukraine as a democracy in any sense of the word, but I’m curious as to which fascist state you’re immediately convinced I’m simping for here. Is it perhaps my own country, which I’ve watched debase its entire population with the plague of Christianity, authoritarianism and anti-“wokeness” into a horrifying type of zombie that still has the audacity to call itself a Russian “person”, all just to distract us from 200% cumulative inflation in 12 years that has reduced the horizon of planning of most of its people to one week, with the state replacing the notion of “law” with “obedience” in the process to polarize every living thing that has a brain?
I do not operate under the terms “the saviors” and “the baddies”, nor do I believe that the US should cease military aid to Ukraine. I’m just committed to dispelling the image of normalcy that a “good vs evil” portrayal creates.
How bizarre.
Well, this might be controversial, but most people regard “A nation not wanting to be genocided” as pretty anodyne, and “Government wanting to commit genocide” as pretty evil, so you’ll have to forgive me for not finding your “Um aktually” statements all that compelling in light of this situation, which is one of the least morally ambiguous conflicts of the 21st century.
I wholeheartedly agree with the moral character of Ukraine’s self defense. What I don’t agree with, however, is the moral character of the US, a supplier of “aid” that never gives anything to anyone for free.
I once again inquire what fascist state you were so unbelievably convinced I was simping for.
How curious, because you began by stating
It’s almost like a classic motte-and-bailey argument.
Yes, here we have the horrible motivation of [checks notes] not wanting Ukraine, a country who we have fairly close ties with, annexed by an authoritarian dictatorship who constantly causes trouble for us. Truly, we are vile opportunists here.
Russia. And if you believe this conflict is something best described in ‘shades of gray’, then I still regard you as simping for Russia, in the same way that Juche apologists sometimes admit fault with North Korea, but always immediately pivot to “But South Korea Just As Bad™”. Playing “Bothsides!” games is old hat. It’s been overused. No one falls for it anymore. Sorry.
I do think that the substance of our disagreement here is minute and the “no good side” statement I opened this with is far from the best way of wording what I was referring to here. Please note, however, that at no point did I bring “shades of gray” or “both sides equally bad” into the conversation, and that the antagonistic nature of your gotcha is deeply reductive, insensitive and automated.
I’m sorry, I’ll be more sensitive to people who parrot the same narratives that genocidal states in the process of committing genocide do in the future. Especially considering your assertion that Ukraine isn’t a democratic state ‘in any sense of the word’, which is definitely rooted in reality and totally not a line pushed by Russian propaganda.
Maybe next time I find an Israel supporter who insists on the ‘complexity’ of the ongoing Gaza genocide I’ll give them an asspat and a kiss on the cheek instead of my usual “What the fuck is wrong with you?”