Then please explain how pirating movies or games doesn’t cause harm to other people but training AI with the copyrighted work of others does.

In both cases you’re taking something for free that you’re expected to pay for. In both cases there’s someone not getting paid. The only difference between the two that I can see is the scale which is irrelevant from the point of view of the argument I’m making which is that it’s hypocritical to be against one but not the other.

Exactly. The difference is in people’s head. Not in the act in of itself.

Thief steals a lollipop. Who cares?

Thief steals a car. We care.

Both are still thieves.

They wouldn’t have bought all the content they have pirated if piracy was not an option but they would have bought some of it.

Piracy has saves money. Saving money means I have more money to spend on other things. Earning money means I have more money to spend on other things. There’s no practical difference between the two.

In my view, my point still stands; being against one but not the other is hypocritical.

There’s no practical difference between the two.

If I save 100 bucks a month from my expenses it means I have an extra 100 bucks to spend on something else.

If I earn additional 100 bucks a month it means I have an extra 100 bucks to spend on something else.

They’re saving money which is effectively the same thing.

No, but they’re saving money which is effectively the same thing. There’s no practical difference between earning 50 bucks and getting a 50 buck discount.

I don’t see how this addresses my question. Just because someone is causing bigger harm it doesn’t justify causing a little harm. Stealing a lollipop is less bad than stealing a car but it’s still both stealing. AI companies can afford paying for the material just like online pirate can afford paying for the movie.

Making a copy is free. Making the original is not. I don’t expect a professional photographer to hand out their work for free because making copies of it costs nothing. You’re not paying for the copy, you’re paying for the money and effort needed to create the original.

The original source material is still there. They just made a copy of it. If you think that’s stealing then online piracy is stealing as well.

I never fully figured out how the people who are against AI companies using copyrighted content on the training data fit that in with their general attitude towards online piracy. Seems contradictory to be against one but not another.

More to the point

This whole conversation so far has entirely missed the point.

The fact that a self driving car company has gotten people killed is a moot point. Even if we had a self driving car that is 100x safer driver than humans it will still get people killed. Saying “This 100 times safer than human car company has gotten multiple people killed” doesn’t mean anything. Human drivers get 110 people killed every single day in the US alone. That’s the starting point. Not 0 people getting killed. The only thing that’s important here is being better driver than human. Not perfect - better.

Both will lead to people getting killed eventually. It’s near-unavoidable fact of reality. Better not let perfect be the enemy of good. The key is that less and less people are dying and getting injured.

Let’s hear your plan then.

Well yeah right now that may still be the case but I was mostly thinking about the “true” self driving cars of the future. It seems obvious to be that they would vastly outperform human drivers on literally everything. Just like a true AGI would.

Sure. I can’t know the outcome for sure but I’d be stunned if the trend ended up being male players being humiliated by women. I just cannot imagine this being the case. I have nothing against it per se but I have a strong feeling it would come at the expense of women.

My only personal experience on this is sparring against a purple belt female in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu while I was still a complete novice myself. She put up a good fight but she didn’t stand a chance. Granted I was also bigger and stronger than her. On the other hand, sparring against a smaller but more experienced male I stood no chance myself. He’d beat me every single time without an exception.

You can look up the leaderboards of any of the mentioned sports. It’s not that there’s not any women in there but it’s still virtually all male.

Then there are plenty of examples of top level female athletes losing to males nobody has never even heard of.

Venus and Serena Williams lost to 203rd ranked male tennis player

FC Dallas under-15 boys squad beat the U.S. Women’s National Team in a scrimmage

So if we replaced every single car in the US with Waymo’s vehicles the daily deaths from traffic accidents would drop from 110 to 11. That’s 11 news articles every day to use as evidence about how self driving cars are “not safe” because Waymo has killed multiple people.

That’s the absurdity my comment tries to highlight. It’s all relative. Pointing to individual accidents is not a proof in itself of something being unsafe. This applies to Tesla FSD as well.

Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.

I don’t want to see a 80kg male boxing against a 80kg female. I already know how that is going to end.

Even in “sports” like chess, darts and pool virtually every single world class player is a male. It’s not just about strenght.