Let’s try this here before it gets its own post somewhere.

That is, I have a growing suspicion that even here in a community that specialises in the Fediverse, hardly anyone can relate to it, and out in the meme communities, nobody will even understand it.

Just a pity that the community is pretty much dead.

It’s basically like a Hubzilla channel which, in turn, is somewhat like a Friendica account. Which, again, is very vagely like a Mastodon account.

To my best knowledge, you can’t follow individual accounts outside the Threadiverse on Lemmy.

In addition, (streams) has recently switched to decentralised IDs as per FEP-ef61. This could be the reason why Lemmy can’t find my (streams) channels, but it can find my Hubzilla channels: It doesn’t understand DIDs.

It would just either have to be on a server that also offers all server applications covered by the Web client so that everything has the same domain.

Or you would have to tell people to register accounts on foo.social, bar.social and/or baz.social, but the Web UI is on qux.social. Bit confusing for newbies who only knew centralised silos five minutes ago.

Here’s some stuff that I’d meme about:

• Mastodon users thinking the Fediverse is only Mastodon
• Lemmy users thinking the Threadiverse is only Lemmy
• Mastodon users thinking the Fediverse started with Mastodon
• Mastodon being ridiculously underpowered in comparison to just about everything else, particularly Hubzilla and (streams)
• Mastodon users wishing Mastodon (or, better yet, “the Fediverse”) had certain features which are readily available just about everywhere outside of Mastodon
• Mobile apps built against only Mastodon
• Fediverse tools built against only Mastodon
• Pleroma being lightweight
• Mastodon’s culture which Mastodon users are trying to force upon the rest of the Fediverse
• Forkey antics such as “Speak as cat”
• Forkeys in general
• Forkeys inspired by Blåhaj vs Mastodon’s mastodon plushie
• Mastodon users still uploading videos to YouTube and not to PeerTube
• Hubzilla’s UI
• Sharkey’s infamously bad Mastodon API implementation
• Friendica federating with everything, especially juxtaposed with some Mastodon users not wanting to federate with anything that isn’t vanilla Mastodon
• Hubzilla’s ability to host Web pages
• Nomadic identity
• Bluesky’s AT protocol seeming like a cheap knock-off of the Zot and Nomad protocols in parts
• Self-proclaimed Fediverse experts who actually barely know anything about Mastodon and don’t know anything about the rest of the Fediverse
• Character limits
• Threads perhaps wanting to EEE the Fediverse vs Mastodon actively trying to EEE the Fediverse right now
• Mastodon’s poster-side content warnings set in stone in what they want to be the Fediverse culture vs Friendica’s, Hubzilla’s, (streams)’ and Forte’s automated, reader-side content warnings which have been around for longer
• Generally, the Fediverse being older than Mastodon
• Lemmy only barely federating with everything else
• /kbin essentially being dead
• Permissions on Hubzilla and (streams)
• “Conversations” on Mastodon vs conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams)
• Certain points in the Fediverse history

Granted, I guess almost all of this will fly even over most c/Fediverse users’ heads due to how detached Lemmy is from the rest of the Fediverse. But I don’t really expect that many more Mastodon users to understand it, and those who do may be offended. Oh well.

I’ve started a new (streams) channel for Fediverse memes, but I thought Lemmy could be another, even better place to post them.

I’ve already posted two creations of mine there, One does not simply implement FEP-ef61 with very extensive explanations and What if I told you the Fediverse is not only Mastodon? with only one link to explain it. I’m still trying to find the right amount of explanation for an audience that shall be mostly on Mastodon.

Beyond that, I’ve got loads of ideas. But I don’t want to post more of them here than on (streams). So I’ll first have to define my way of posting them on (streams) to what will be a largely Mastodon audience in a way that satisfies Mastodon’s accessibility requirements the best. I hope to speed up my meme-posting rate then.

No time to run and moderate it. I’m not primarily a Lemmy user, I’m mostly on Hubzilla and (streams). It can happen that I’m absent from Lemmy for weeks.

For one specific Fediverse project each, yes.

But what the OP is looking for is a Web client that lets you log into Mastodon and Lemmy and PeerTube all the same. Probably one that unifies your Mastodon, Lemmy and PeerTube timelines into one, rather than listing your Mastodon timeline next to your Lemmy timeline next to your PeerTube timeline in three separate columns, TweetDeck-style.

Or maybe what the OP is looking for is a Web server and client that unites all features of Mastodon and Lemmy and PeerTube in one Fediverse project so that only one single login is needed for everything.

Neither of these exists.

What I meant weren’t screenshots from social media that are treated like memes.

I rather meant original memes made in the Fediverse for the Fediverse, lampooning the Fediverse, parts of it or certain aspects of it. Even if they’re based on existing templates, no matter how old.

Also, it’d be nice if there was a place where such memes can be posted in the first place.

These problems could simply arise from the fact that Mastodon is starting to really work on the management of Activitypub groups.

And re-invent the wheel once more, preferably in a proprietary way that’s as incompatible with the rest of the Fediverse as possible but sold to the Mastodon users as the Fediverse gold standard.

It is therefore appropriate to report any incompatibilities to the Mastodon staff, so that they can claim the other side is broken unless the other side has rock-solid proof that it’s actually Mastodon that’s doing it wrong.

FTFY

Any bets this will only work with Mastodon because it was built and designed only against Mastodon?

I wouldn’t even be surprised if other Fediverse server apps could simply circumvent sub.club if sub.club assumes that everything else out there works like Mastodon, too.

But where would a unified Web client run in the first place? It would have to be installed on a Web server and, from there, access the Web servers of the various different server apps which would still be entirely different and independent installations.

For a Web client with no actual server backend, the same would go as for a mobile app: It would have to cover pretty much all features of everything. If uniting Lemmy and Mastodon in one UI seems tricky already, try adding Hubzilla and (streams) to the mix.

If you’re actually looking for a unified Web server and client, i.e. one Fediverse project that literally covers everything the Fediverse can do with one login on one server and one identity: This won’t happen.

This would be way too much for one Fediverse project to tackle. You’d basically have to start with (streams), add back all functionality that has been removed since the first fork from Hubzilla (and that’s a whole lot), make all kinds of non-nomadic protocols compatible with nomadic identity via Nomad and ActivityPub, and then gradually add all kinds of features from all over the place, from PeerTube to Funkwhale, from PieFed to Owncast, from Mobilizon to BookWyrm. And you’d have to soft-fork everything and keep them in-sync with their respective upstreams.

The outcome would be too complex for most. People would have to deal with their account/their login not being their identity because their identity is containerised in a channel. They would have to wrap their minds around nomadic identity. They would have to deal with fine-grained permissions settings. They would have a post editor that’s every bit as powerful as those on big blogging platforms when all they want to do is tweet and retweet and occasionally watch a video. And they would have tons of features on top.

The whole thing would be an utter nightmare for its developers as well, seeing as they’d constantly have to track over 100 Fediverse projects and implement any upgrades which they’ve rolled out.

Hubzilla and (streams) can be installed as PWAs.

It isn’t just types of content that makes a fully featured, unified Fediverse client nigh-impossible. It’s features in general.

It all starts with having one unified timeline for any arbitrary number of Fediverse identities on any arbitrary number of different Fediverse servers. Nicely convenient. You only open one app, and you’ve got them all. Not even separated timelines within the same app, TweetDeck-style. No, you have posts on your three Mastodon accounts under posts on your Pixelfed account under posts on your Lemmy account under posts on your Friendica account, maybe even under posts on your Hubzilla channel if the app isn’t limited to the Mastodon API, and if it supports multiple identities under one login.

But it doesn’t stop there.

Maybe you want to reply to a post. Or you want to post something yourself.

And, of course, you don’t want to stick with the basics that Mastodon offers. Maybe you want to use text formatting.

So text formatting has to be implemented. But it has to be deactivated if you want to post to one of your Mastodon accounts, but it has to be reactivated if one of them is actually on Glitch.

Next trouble: Not everything that supports text formatting supports standard Markdown. Misskey and its various forks use “Misskey-flavoured Markdown”. On Friendica, Markdown is optional and off by default, and BBcode is the standard. On Hubzilla, Markdown is not available at all, only BBcode is, and it comes with a whole slew of extras specific to Mike Macgirvin’s nomadic projects from Red (2012) to Forte (2024). So yes, you may want support for things like [zmg][/zmg], [zrl=][/zrl] or [observer.baseurl].

Of course, if you are on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams), you’re used to having a post preview. Code-heavy posting like on these three makes it a requirement; pure plain-text posting like on Mastodon doesn’t. But the preview button must be able to faithfully render any post just like its native server application would render it. No matter what it’ll be. Oh, and if you’ve got NSFW activated on your Friendica account or your Hubzilla or (streams) channel, the preview must be hidden behind an automatically generated content warning.

Speaking of which, Mastodon-style CWs aren’t unified either. Depending on the server, they would have to go into the CW field, the summary field, [abstract=apub][/abstract] (Friendica), [summary][/summary] (streams) or nowhere at all (e.g. Lemmy, replies on Hubzilla).

The Fediverse has various different ways of quote-posting, and Mastodon doesn’t have quote-posts at all. The Threadiverse has dislikes/downvotes/thumbs-down, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) optionally have them, too, but others don’t. Misskey and the Forkeys have emoji reactions. Hubzilla has only twelve emojis, and clicking one creates a whole new comment with only that emoji in it. Friendica lets you hashtag other people’s posts, so does (streams) optionally, but only they themselves even understand this feature.

Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) also have categories, much like a blog, next to hashtags. At least on Hubzilla and (streams), they’re optional. But they require their own text field which the app must have, too, depending on the availability of this feature.

This goes further and further. After all, you may not just want basic functionality for when you aren’t on your computer. Maybe you don’t have a computer. Maybe your phone is the only digital end-user device you possess. So the app would have to cover not only the bare necessities (read, reply, post etc.), but everything.

For example, someone wants to follow you. On Mastodon, you just confirm it if you’ve set your account up to do so manually, and you’re done.

On Hubzilla with enough optional features activated, you assign a contact role to the new contact to give it the permissions you want to grant it, you add it to one or multiple privacy groups, you choose which profile that contact can see, you adjust the affinity slider, you may even want to pre-fill the per-contact filter lists (one allowlist, one blocklist), and then you confirm the new connection. Upon which Hubzilla automatically follows that connection back. Oh, and then you can still block or ignore or archive a connection or set it to invisible. On (streams), it’s somewhat similar, but since you can grant individual permissions to specific contacts in addition to a pre-defined permission role, you’ve got even more options.

A unified, daily-driver Fediverse app that’s supposed to fully replace Web interfaces would have to offer UI elements for all these settings. And only when they’re actually needed.

Don’t get me started about settings and options. Again, the app would have to mirror all of them. Many people have never touched the Web UI of their Fediverse servers, and they don’t intend to. They do everything on their phones with dedicated apps.

On Hubzilla, this would include access to Hubzilla’s built-in “apps”. “Install”, “uninstall” and configure them. Many important optional features are “apps”. But amongst these “apps”, there are also things like articles, wikis and Web pages. And what would being able to turn these features on and off be worth if you couldn’t use them in the app? And so the app will also have to provide access to Hubzilla’s articles and wikis and Web pages with all bells and whistles.

Of course, whenever a Fediverse server app changes in a way that makes changes in the UI necessary, this unified mobile app would have to follow suit immediately.

Even Fedilab is limited.

Sure, most “Fediverse apps” are Mastodon apps which allow you to use anything that supports the Mastodon API, but which only offer you Mastodon’s feature set, maybe even only the feature set of Mastodon 3 if the app is old enough.

Fedilab has specific features of other projects coded in. After all, it’s made by Pixelfed’s creator and developer, so it has to support as many Pixelfed features as possible, even if Mastodon doesn’t have them.

But Fedilab doesn’t have all features of all supported projects. For example, Fedilab does not have the necessary extra entry field for post titles on Friendica.

The Fediverse is not one enclosed, unified entity under one centralised rule.

It’s a common misconception that “the Fediverse” is a network platform created by whomever, usually Eugen Rochko. And Mastodon, Lemmy, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube etc. are Web UIs for the Fediverse, and Mona, IceCubes, Tusky, Fedilab etc. are mobile UIs for the Fediverse which mimic the functionality of certain Web UIs.

This is complete non-sense. None of this is true.

Instead, the Fediverse is a patchwork of many different things that work together by speaking common languages. And with “work together”, I mean “work together ever so barely” in many cases. Mastodon and Lemmy are not different clients for the same server thing. They connect, but they can hardly interact.

These “apps” aren’t client apps. They’re server applications. They provide a whole slew of very very different server backends.

There is no “Fediverse suite of apps” either. Just about everything in the Fediverse is developed and offered separately from one another.

Mastodon, in particular, ignores the whole rest of the Fediverse and tries to present itself to its users and Fediverse novices as “the Fediverse”. And when Mastodon users discover that Mastodon is, in fact, not “the Fediverse”, Mastodon makes them believe that everything that doesn’t work exactly like Mastodon is broken.

Oh, and no, Eugen Rochko didn’t invent the Fediverse. Evan Prodromou did. In 2008. That was when he took his recently launched Twitter alternative Identi.ca, open-sourced its technology under the name Laconi.ca (later StatusNet, now part of GNU social) and laid its protocol open under the name OpenMicroBlogging (now OStatus).

The Fediverse consisting of multiple different kinds of interacting servers came to exist in 2010 when Mike Macgirvin launched his Facebook alternative named Mistpark (now Friendica). He built it on top of a whole new protocol, but he gave it the ability to speak OpenMicroBlogging as well, thus connecting it to StatusNet. One key feature of Friendica is still to be able to connect to everything that moves and then some.

Mastodon was built on top of OStatus, too. But the intention was not to connect it to already-existing StatusNet, Friendica, Hubzilla (a much more powerful Friendica fork by Mike Macgirvin himself) and Pleroma (which had started out as an alternative UI for StatusNet). The idea was rather that using an already existing protocol was easier for a young and barely experienced coder than designing an all-new protocol from scratch. Mastodon never intended to be interoperable with anything else.

Even when Mastodon introduced ActivityPub as early as September, 2017, it was not to be able to interact with Hubzilla which had it first, two months earlier. By the way, ActivityPub is another one of Evan Prodromou’s creations, but this time, he wasn’t alone.

The idea behind Lemmy seemed to be similar: Build a Reddit clone, but without the hassle of designing a brand-new communication protocol. The difference was that Mastodon was already quite well-known when Lemmy was launched. When Mastodon was launched, StatusNet was considered dead after its only really known instance, Identi.ca had switched from OStatus to pump.io. As for Friendica, Hubzilla and Pleroma, nobody knew they existed, much less that they spoke OStatus. OStatus was there, ready to use, but to most people who came across it, it felt unused. So I guess that when Eugen Rochko created Mastodon, he unironically and sincerely believed that he was now the only one using this protocol, nobody else ever would again, and Mastodon would only ever connect to itself. Mastodon’s whole very concept is to be a “federated walled garden”, decentralised on the inside, but not letting anything else connect.

It literally started in 2010, almost six years before Mastodon.

If you’re looking for something that is to Facebook what Bluesky is to pre-Musk Twitter, it doesn’t exist.

Otherwise, “the Facebook ones” are:

• Friendica (intended to be a Facebook alternative from the very beginning, designed to federate with everything that moves)
• Hubzilla (fork of (a fork of?) Friendica by Friendica’s own creator, currently the most powerful piece of server software in the whole Fediverse, basically a federated Swiss army knife that can do Facebook as well)
• the nameless thing in the streams repository (not in this graph, fork of a fork of a fork of a fork… of Hubzilla by Friendica’s and Hubzilla’s creator, less feature-laden than Hubzilla, but more modern and evolving at a rapid pace, the most advanced piece of server software in the whole Fediverse, but instances are hard to find)