Medicare For All is not free healthcare, as in on the government’s dime, it is entirely paid for by taxes.

Yeah, no shit sherlock. Socialist / Communist countries like Cuba also pay for Health Care.

That doesn’t change the fact that several important examples (Soviet Union, Cuba, and now most recently, Venezuela) have collapsed… or are currently collapsing under that load and those costs.

We know plenty of examples of countries who have done that. My question is why the fuck do you want to bring it to the USA?

By having free healthcare for all you actually save money if basically no other change is made.

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2022-02/57637-Single-Payer-Systems.pdf

In this analysis, we found that economic output would be between 0.3 percent lower and 1.8 percent higher than the benchmark economy 10 years after the single-payer system was implemented, without incorporating the effects of financing the system. Under a single-payer system, workers would choose to work fewer hours, on average, despite higher wages because the reduction in health insurance premiums and OOP expenses would generate a positive wealth effect that allowed households to spend their time on activities other than paid work and maintain the same standard of living. If the system was financed with an income or payroll tax, gross domestic product (GDP) would be between approximately 1.0 percent and 10 percent lower by 2030, depending on the specification of the single-payer system and the details of the financing policy.

Sounds like we pay by having a loss of GDP measured between 1% to 10%. That’s rather substantial.

CBO is the non-partisan accountants of the US Senate/House. They are our best estimate on the true costs of various programs.

Except the racists did vote for Biden in 2020, despite Harris being the VP.

Arizona ain’t exactly a happy-go-lucky civil rights state. Do you really have assurances that Arizona goes to Kamala if she’s on the top of the ticket?

Yeah, and Medicare / Social Security are already going bankrupt by 2040.

A gross expansion of those programs will make them go bankrupt even faster. You need to explain how to raise money for a “Medicare for All” program… and not just “Well fuck Taiwan / Phillipines / Far East / Ukraine / everyone else in the world”.

We’re going to have our hands full just keeping the programs available over the next few decades, and you want to expand them?

The fuck do I hear Bernie saying “Medicare for All” ?

That’s literally free Healthcare as his top-of-the-line discussion point for the last decade.

All of this could easily be paid by taxing the wealthy and reducing military spending. Would that be a problem for you?

Where does Ukraine and Taiwan fit in that reduced military spending?

Ah right, Bernie is also isolationist. He probably doesn’t give a shit. And even if we don’t support Israel (I know how the left feels about that), we the USA need to continue to patrol the Red Sea vs not just the Houthis, but also Somali Pirates and other threats.

Military spending is going up, by any realistic discussion. Ukraine is only heating up, and Taiwan is likely getting hotter and hotter as China literally cuts off Filipino fingers and uses them to bully others in the Far East. If yall think peace will happen by reducing US Military spending at this juncture, you’re losing my vote.

Bonus points: I’m also Filipino. So consider myself, and my family, very interested in hearing what the Democrats actually have to say about far-east stability / Taiwan / China’s increasingly aggressive actions.

I’m an Anti-Trump Republican. I’m quite interested in seeing what yall’s plan is to fight Trump this fall, and frankly, I’m not impressed with what I’m seeing in this topic yet.

Hopefully you all figure something out by next week. And if not next week, the week after that. But your time is short, and time is ticking.

I’m likely voting for the Democratic candidate, whoever it is. But none of this internal Democrats’s chaos is my responsibility or my problem. I’m just here to point out that you have a large degree of my support from being anti-Trump, but I can’t go so far left as Bernie (or some other progressives you got).

That’s really all I’m here to point out.

In any case, figure out a name. Otherwise Democrats will lose. And figure out a name before you get rid of Biden/Kamala. You’re throwing away a decent candidate with a decent anti-Trump record for literally nobody right now.

We can just leave you all behind, and give voters a candidate they like. A progressive candidate.

Okay. Name the candidate.

Except we both know you don’t have a name, and that’s why you’re going through this exercise of avoiding uncomfortable truths.

Go get that name, start pushing that name consistently, start saying [Insert Specific Name Here] is a better choice than Biden and MAYBE you have a chance.

But for now, you’re just giving Republicans in general a field day and a ton of joy by attacking Biden.

I listed two options I think would work for me:

1. Biden

2. Kamala (using Biden as a shield)

Of course, #1 and #2 are basically identical. So the easiest thing for the Democrats to do is just lean into #2.

In any case, I think this discussion is still useful to have. Whoever you pick needs to win Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Georgia like Biden did vs Trump. Do you know of any candidate who can perform similarly to Biden in these states?

You’re just a Republican here to tell us no matter what Biden is the only option besides trump?

I’m a Republican here wondering if yall actually have a plan, or if this is another one of those “Occupy Wall Street” situations where a bunch of Republicans get voted in a few months after yall’s temper tantrum.

Lets put it this way.

Do you know how Elon Musk tricks his dumbass followers that they’re all going to Mars? And its so ridiculous that no one actually seriously talks about the overall plan?

That’s Bernie Sanders. No one seriously debates him because its so far out. Seeing a couple of followers get strung up in Bernie’s moonshots is whatever, its going to happen. But nothing will come from it, and Bernie knows that. (Much like how Elon knows all the bullshit he spews is nothing either).

I get that its a popular way to get a niche following. But when we’re talking about a real Presidential candidate, hopes and dreams aren’t quite good enough. You’ll need to talk about things that are ya know, at least close to political reality.

Or if Elon Musk is a bad example, consider how the Abortion debate played out. Back 10 years ago, it wasn’t really a real discussion point. Today, it is, and now its suddenly a problem for Republicans because the implementation details of Abortion bans are really fucking stupid.

Same thing with Bernie. By the time Bernie is in office, its too late to realize that it was all bullshittery and the numbers simply don’t line up.

Sounds like the party should have let an open and fair primary happen…

Its yall’s problem. I’m a Republican. I barely know the Democratic ticket.

But who did best in the Primaries anyway? Do you think they can seriously unify the party and make a strong anti-Trump candidate?

He’s literally running as a socialist.

Free housing, free health care, free everything. It sounds good until you look at Venezuela.

When we point out… oh… I dunno… how Venezuela collapses because of government takeover as private entities or their other socialist policies (which directly have similarities to Bernie’s discussion points), yall just ignore us.

Exactly.

So making Kamala the top of the ticket does nothing but energize the racists to vote against her.

There is no point putting Kamala front and center. Just have Biden resign in January after serving as a political shield for Kamala.

No kidding, if y’all put Bernie in as Democrat pick I’m voting fucking Trump.

The other ones (Kamala, Buttigege and Newcom) I might be fine with. But 100% Bernie is far left bullshit I for one am not putting up with.

And no, we ain’t gonna go with an even older candidate who is far more extreme.

Biden was bad for the first 10 minutes. By the 40 minute mark he was fine but he already lost the audience and the tiny attention span of modern Americans is evident.

That’s… Whatever. I get it. We’re in the tiktok age of short discussions. Expect more of this moving forward.

Biden shouldn’t drop out until a solid plan moving forward is established.

Do we even know if a Democrat can unify the party if he drops out? Or will the replacement be worse?

As I’ve pointed out in other topics: people need to start listing names, and I need to start seeing those names consolidate into one obvious choice.

A vote for Biden is practically a vote for Kamala, so Kamala is something I’ve already accepted. I don’t think it will do much favors though because she’s much more divisive and I know plenty of racists who will NOT vote for Kamala and actively vote for Trump instead. So its not so much me you have to worry about Kamala, but some other fence-sitters I know of.

If yall Democrats don’t think Biden is going to last all 4 years, then its all Kamala in the long run anyway.

Newsom

You’re going to lose Michigan over Advance Clean Cars II, which is so extreme its even banned hybrids by 2035 (despite the fact that many hybrids have more environmental friendliness than cars like Hummer EV).

There’s a lot of stupid here, and honestly Biden has handled the situation far better and more reasonably than many Democratic Governors on issues like this.

Sure sure.

So who’s your pick for President? Start listing names. Lets see if you get any traction.

The democrats have already lost and I want them to know why

I’m a Republican FYI. But I am an anti-Trump Republican. Do you think you can list a name of someone that both you and I’d vote for?

It isn’t new and is honestly exhausting to talk about.

And yet talking about Biden’s advanced age is new and not exhausting to talk about?

Because let me tell you one thing: the discussion you’ve chosen to get worked up about, plays to your political opponent.

The entirety of the 2nd half of the “Debate” had Trump talking about how Social Security is ruined by immigrants. Medicare ruined by immigrants. January 6th is ruined by immigrants.

It was some fucking nonsense. And somehow, I go online and not a single Democrat in a discussion is pointing out this severe weakness of Trump.

Jamaal Bowman losing his New York Primary would like a word with you.

Biden is closer to the Democrat mainstream.