You could probably make a poptarts are sandwiches alignment style thing out of this.
Basically, any video game with an explicit goal, or set of goals is just a puzzle game with extra steps.
What buttons do you push, when do you push them, what does this accomplish, how does that lead you to your end goal, etc.
You could even argue that multiplayer tactics constitute a puzzle, a more social puzzle.
Yes, this is reductive, but this is a dumb showerthoughts post.
Any first-person-shooter is technically a point and click game.
I’m going to provide a counter-example to disprove. A slot machine is a video game that is not a puzzle since there is no solution.
I agree with “Most video games are puzzle games” though. There are exceptions like Rail Shooter. Button mash only game. Bullet hell games don’t really have a puzzle element since solution is already shown by areas having no bullets in them.
I feel like this statement also hinges on “all video game strategy is a puzzle” people might disagree with.
This reminds me of an exhibiton I once saw called “No Pain, No Game”. The idea being that any sort of game has some failure state, some obstacle to overcome, that’s what makes it a game. So of course I started thinking of counter-examples. Your slot machine idea is a good one, what I eventually came up with is Cookie Clicker. That game is nothing but positive reinforcement. There’s no way to lose progress or mess anything up, any action you take makes you “win more”. Not taking an action also makes you “win more”, just more slowly.
This showerthought is an idea adjacent to that all. Interesting stuff, even though it’s not too deep.
The cookie clicker could still be a puzzle as long as you make it impossible to win without using some power-ups because you’ll die sooner of old age. That’s assuming there is a win condition in it. Other clickers are genuinely not puzzles since they’re infinite and not winnable. Not winnable makes them not solvable so they can’t be a puzzle.
I’m pretty sure cookie clicker has no victory condition, it just goes on and on. At least it was that way last time I played it. Things might have changed since.
There’s some kind of stock market mini game in there now, so you can play and lose at something in the game, but no overall win conditions im aware of.
Also, technically all video games are just really long tech demos.
If you define “puzzle” as a problem that you must work out with hard mental effort, then no; not at all games are puzzles. Rail shooters and other mindless games that rely more on reaction speed would not constitute a puzzle since you don’t really need to even think.
Online shooter, sure. You have to think about what the other guy is gonna do. Virtua Cop? You just need to aim and shoot fast when the bad dudes appear. I mean, you could play Counter-Strike like Virtua Cop but you probably aren’t gonna be good unless you’re posted up with an AWP all the time.
I actually love Metal Gear Solid because its design is much like that of a puzzle game, where the puzzle is “how the fuck do I kill everyone without being seen?” Hitman is the same way, but it always felt less curated than MGS because there isn’t just 1 solution to the problem, where as MGS does. And a lot of it is only conveyed through their respective scoring systems.
On the flip side, I tend to dislike leaderboards in most games because there is only 1 possible way to get the maximum possible score for any given level or minigame that once it’s worked out, everyone can be at the top and the only way to truly rise above everyone is to cheat.
Doesn’t that just apply to life in general?
Almost all video games are puzzle games because you have to figure out how tf to play them. I had to study for a while before understanding Stellaris.
You managed to understand Stellaris?
It’s not reductive, it’s misrepresentative. A puzzle game is only a puzzle game as long as coming up with the solution is the main task. There are more than enough games where coming up with the right solution is not difficult, but performing it is.
Also the name puzzle game implies that there are designed puzzles. Any game where you have to make decisions in generated situations aren’t puzzle games. For example if you take a specific chess situation and ask which move would lead to check mate in x moves then that’s a chess puzzle. That doesn’t make the game of chess itself a puzzle.
Speaking of chess, you might be able to argue that some old RTS games are puzzle games when playing campaign, such as the first Command & Conquer. You often have very limited resources, the AI will do specific things at specific times or with specific triggers, and you’re often given specific constraints, like a time limit or keeping a specific thing alive. In this case, though, it’s mostly because the AI is so primitive that almost every action is scripted in advance for that specific map.
By your definition, Tetris is not a puzzle game.
Its generated and execution difficulty is a major factor.
According to his interpretation of the genre it would be an action-strategy game which arguably fits tetris better. Your underlying point implies that all strategy games are puzzle games which this guy doesn’t agree with I think.
FPS are an adventure/puzzle game where the only solution is “USE GUN ON MAN”
Remember, no Russian
Правда?
Putting the pieces in a puzzle is an action, sliding blocks is an action, moving in maze is an action, every game is action.
We wouldn’t play a game that wasn’t exciting or interesting to us so they’re all adventures too. If there’s more than one player or a time limit of any kind it’s a race, we by definition are controlling a character and playing its role so everything is an RPG…
Following this logic whole human life is a puzzle game.
Beauracracy is one big puzzle of locks and keys where applications are keys and passports are keys to border control locks etc.
That’s not wrong.
Okay, but pop-tarts are raviolis, not sandwiches. That doesn’t even make sense. What kind of sandwich is enclosed on all sides?
Pop-tarts are dumplings for sure. They’re cooked dough wrapped around a filling.
A calzone
A Snackmaster sandwich.
A pop-tart
Listen here you little turd
I mean, technically, I guess (insert Futurama technical correct meme), but with that defintion everything is a puzzle.
I just breathed in, what do I do next? I can’t inhale more air. I have to think fast! Maybe if I breath out, I can then breath in again… It worked! Amazing!
Going to submit my probably-not-a-puzzle-game-game: rhythm games. The game tells you exactly what to press and when you’re supposed to press it, it’s just up to you to actually press the buttons. See: DDR, Rhythm Doctor.
Note that there are rhythm games that have more decision making like crypt of the necrodancer (rhythm roguelike)
I will grant you that, I agree.
If there is no thought required to determine the difference between a correct and incorrect choice, if its purely just ‘do this’ and the only difficulty is in execution, then yes I would agree this is not a puzzle.
Also, mobile idle games like clash of clans or simcity. Maybe some tactics like “I’ll build this now so I can do that tomorrow” but that’s not a puzzle, that is just choices.
Wow, so the “x” on screen means I have to press the “x” on my controler while it’s highlighted!?
Damn, thanks for spoiling that puzzle!
Yep, going through the first part of the ff7 remake and the combat is a puzzle. Don’t do it right and get your ass kicked. MMO combat is the same: stack or die/spread or die, memories this dance, etc.
MMOs are probably the most notorious genre at this point for being extremely overproduced puzzle games.
Sure, there are different builds and strats… but its all very formulaic and boring once you find something that works.
Not to mention a huge, huge amount of them are basically just pay to win, to varying degrees, these days.
Although you could argue they do not actually have a goal… hrm.
Like obviously there are quests and goals and story arcs but technically, there probably are some mmos where you could just make your personal goal something wildly unconventional.
I haven’t played many mmos in a while, but that kind of spirit seems to just only be further and further dying out, I just hope theres still some mmo it exists somewhere.
Yeah, I’ve considered, whether you could boil all games down to three aspects:
- puzzle
- reaction
- flavor
But yeah, still really reductive and I’m not sure, this is useful in any way. 🙃
Flavor?
Basically anything that has to do with:
- story telling / plot
- world building / lore
- pacing, cinematics
- art style, music selection
- atmosphere, jump scares
Oh, I thought flavor was a style of game like puzzle or rhythm.
Is Portal a… First Person Shooter with Puzzle Gameplay? A First Person Puzzle Game?
Is Elden Ring an extremely difficult Action RPG, or is it really just an easy Action RPG hiding behind an opaque and complex system of weapons and armor and enemy types and stats that becomes simple once a viable solution to the puzzle of stats and weapons becomes apparent after either reading a guide or just brute forcing through tens or hundreds of hours of bad solutions?
(For that matter, what even is an RPG?
Role Playing Game?
If that just means that you play a character, ie role, and it is an immersive and or compelling story and world, ok, thats a loooot of games.
Does it mean you can customize your character’s appearance or weapons or stat-build? Ok tons of non RPGs allow for that, and tons of classic RPGs do not allow you to alter your character’s appearance.
If it means you have the ability to put yourself into the game, make choices and do things differently in a way that meaningfully changes how the world of the game responds, then a whole lot of ‘RPGs’ are hardly RPGs at all, as many develop your character(s) as part of their story line to the point that many decisions presented seem entirely out of the established character’s likely responses, or give the player few if any impactful choices, having a mostly or entirely linear storyline.
By that metric most immersive sims are more RPG than many ‘RPGs’, anything with a branching storyline or highly reactive world is as well.)
