With the recent WWDC apple made some bold claims about privacy when it comes to so called Apple Intelligence. This makes me wonder if they did something to what Microsoft did with Recall feature, would people be less concerned and to an extend praise their effort?
Do you trust apple with their claims?
People.would be okay by getting fucked to death with a splintery rake if apple charged $999.99 for it.
“People” would be, yes. Apple is continuously praised by its rabid fans for engaging in anti-consumer practices disguised as “courage” or “security”. There will always be a very vocal group who believe it is the greatest, most humane and ethical company on the planet. Whether the same people who criticised Microsoft would be criticising Apple is another question.
Do I trust them? Sure, I guess, when it comes to privacy from other entities.
Do I trust that I will have privacy from them? Hell no.
Do I trust them with the data they’re absolutely gathering? No, but I don’t trust anyone with it. But I also think that data would be relatively safer with Apple than their competitors.
If Apple announced Recall? Apple wouldn’t announce Recall, that’s the whole point. Apple wouldn’t be so brazen and stupid to implement a tool that is so obviously invasive and so poorly implemented. Apple earned its trust by not making those mistakes.
But if they did decide to say fuck it, and implement something like Recall, of course people would trust them. That’s what trust means: consumers take them at their word. But if it’s as bad as Microsoft’s Recall, Apple would burn all that trust when people found out.
People don’t believe Microsoft because they have long since burned any trust and good will for most of their consumers. They have proven time and time again they don’t give a shit about users wants or needs, and users have felt that. So when they announce Recall, they have no earned trust. No believes them. And it turns out everyone was right to.
creates privacy through taking power from the user.
What do you mean by that?
I’m pretty sure they mean how Apple won’t let you install 3rd party apps and stuff, under the guise of pRiVAcY.
Do I trust them? Sure, I guess, when it comes to privacy from other entities.
Do they not send everything directly to ChatGPT? Like, that logic is not broken with that for the Apple users?
They don’t, actually. Most of AI stuff is processed on device, few go to their private infrastructure, and only certain Siri requests go to ChatGPT, if you give explicit permission.
That’s cool, at least. I’ve never used Siri and never will, but maybe I’ll mess around with their AI if it’s fully on-device.
Based on their claims Siri also works primarily on-device. It wasn’t entirely clear if you can manually prevent the usage of their AI infrastructure, but they definitely implied it. So if that’s true, there’s no real reason to avoid just Siri while still using other AI stuff, cause they are one and the same. And since it runs locally, they can’t even store the voice clips.
I do also trust that Siri is all on-device! Otherwise it would work as well as its competitors hahaha. I just hate voice commands, and will never use them. I want to use my hands for operating devices.
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t on-device before. At least not all the time. But I have some good news for you, they added the ability to type your requests to Siri 😆
And to be fair, some certain things are definitely faster by voice than doing manually, like setting a timer and stuff. It’s just daunting when the assistant misunderstands you or takes ages to respond. If they fixed all that, it could actually be useful.
Apple now has encrypted iCloud backups so they can’t see what you backup to them. GrapheneOS is obviously better but for an off the shelf OS ios ain’t bad.
They have full control over your device. It’s the same for Whatsapps encryption, where Facebook can still access everything on your decrypted client.
Pretty sure it’s not the same at all but keep saying things brother
So you use Android? Or Huawei?
Surely not.
I use GrapheneOS. What’s it to you?
This is always an interesting statement “i can check for my self” i know for sure that most users never checked a single line of code in the open source projects. Maybe you do but 95% do not and make this statement.
The 95% who don’t trust the 5% who do. If there is a backdoor in open source projects it gets known very quickly.
Apart from that, open source projects usually are not for profit, they have no reason to add random unneeded data collection features for example.
Probably an Android phone that has been degoogled or installed with another OS, is my guess.
Bruh what even is this comment? Huawei makes sense, but what’s your deal with android? The whole point of android is that it’s customizable, if you want privacy there are more than enough options.
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Apple fans would
Do you trust apple with their claims?
No. I inherently distrust trillion dolllar tech companies in poorly regulated economies. They are able to get away with a lot of crap and they know it. That’s how the Cult of Apple works. I would not be surprised when they violate their own privacy policy knowingly and structurally.
Yes. Their privacy policy is very clear. They’ve put so much effort into providing privacy features, well before every other developer in the industry, that they’ve built their customer base on it. The class action suit that they would face for compromising that policy would be massive, and they would hemorrhage customers. They have strong financial reason to maintain their word. If you ask for your GDPR compliant abstract from Apple, it’ll only include your name, phone number, and billing address.
From a security standpoint, the privacy features are top notch. They use 256-bit AES encryption for iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, Apple Wallet, Find My iPhone, HomeKit, FileVault, Secure Enclave, and now Apple Intelligence. Apple operating systems use a UNIX kernel design, keeping the application layer independent of the operating system layer, allowing full sandbox control and requiring user authorization for any API access.
Plus, nerds love to try and find chinks in the armor. In the event of the inevitable vulnerability, Apple is always quick to release a patch.
The class action suit that they would face for compromising that policy would be massive
Haha nah it wouldn’t.
and they would hemorrhage customers
I mean all of their competitors give zero fucks about privacy soooo no.
You clearly don’t know many Apple users.
Hi! I know many Apple users, and 100% of them bought it because “bro, it’s Apple”. It’s basically the “im not poor” message that the Apple logo gives. They don’t care about anything else aside that it’s Apple and it plays CandyCrush.
Sounds like you know a bunch of rich kids with iPhones. Recall is a Windows feature. I assume OP was asking about Mac users. The majority of Mac users are creators, who care very much about the privacy of their work.
I would love this this feature to be implemented in IOS. This could be used for several applications like pushing more people to Linux.
You had us in the first half, NGL
Recall in principal is a cool idea. It is also one that M$ has not earned the trust for. I think Apple would be better received. I’m not sure I would like Apple’s recall, but they have done more to foster trust than M$.
I am curious why you’d think that is a good idea. I find it absolutely useless, as anything that I’d like stored… We can already easily store. But recording EVERYTHING that happens in my computer??? What kind of data hoarding obsession is this?
That is a small vulnerability away of being the biggest mistake of your life, IMO.
Same reason file manager has a recents. It helps you return to previous work. Asking it if it remembers which paper had which conclusion or graph would make being a grad students easier. Perhaps it reminds you about some deliverable you promised in an email is due is three days. I see it as a good tool to organize productivity with. Like I said no one has earned the trust this software would require.
Yes! “Recents” works fine and doesn’t even need to record everything you’ve done and consume AI resources!
For asking about papers and so… You can do that with an AI crawler on your files!! No need to store a screenshot of everything you’ve ever done!
The deliverable thing, again, it can be done by directly looking up your files.
But no, somehow they went full spy instead. Companies will love to put this feature in their employee’s computers.
Wanna fire someone? Let’s see if they used their computer once for an unrelated-to-work task…
Now if someone gains access to your computer they’ll get everything that you didn’t think you even had! So great!!
Yeah but recent only considers local files and you can’t ask it which one said this or that if you don’t remember. Its a good tool to keep track of a lot of things. As a student I would like that.
Once you find out we’ve had fuzzy finders for 40 years your mind is going to be blown.
I am not saying AI is not useful. It will be an amazing use case to sprinkle some AI into fuzzyfinders, but don’t let it have everything that has ever been played on screen… Passwords, private windows, one-time messages… You must be very young if you don’t see the problems with that.
There is a reason why we have password protected folders and files, or how we keep some stuff locked online, or how we use private browser windows. And you want to feed all that to an AI.
I know about the fuzzy finders and regular expressions. The Q was why I think it is helpful and I answered that. You’re just hitting me with some dogma. You could also just know where your stuff is at and not need search tools either. Recall is a neat idea, but I don’t have confidence in M$ execution or privacy.
And Apple has earned any trust? Jesus christ people, like less than 2 months ago they were caught restoring “deleted” photos from iCloud to user devices hahahahaha. Of course fans were excusing them talking about disk sectors like that has anything to do with cloud storage being available accidentally hahahaha.
But yeah, Apple cult followers will find a way to justify surrendering even more freedom to Apple with this BS for sure. And they will be paying top dollar for the pleasure hahahaha.
I’m sure we wouldn’t stop hearing about how it was the right decision even if we weren’t having a conversation about it.
They already did, Spotlight is Machiavelli behind the “walled garden”
You got me at trust
Apple’s PR is better. With Microsoft all news titles were like “OMG Windows will take screenshots of all you do and send it to AI”, and with Apple it’s more like “Apple is carefully adding AI to their products, respecting user privacy as they always have been”.
Of course, when one looks into technical details they would find that MS Recall is strictly local and runs only on special hardware that people don’t even have yet.
Apple Intelligence does send your data to cloud and scans everything you have in Apple ecosystem, not just screenshots. Of course they say it’s done in very privacy respecting ways, and provide a lot of technical information to back this claim. But at the end it’s closed source and is subject to change at any time.
Having said that, Apple users are used to and value that Apple magically takes care of everything, so they are happy to pay premium for Apple’s products whatever the company does.
Makes a lot of sense until the closed source affirmation. The source code of the OS they develop is closed source, but a lot of what they do is open source and independantly audited by experts, so there’s that in the balance.
Windows is just a pile of trash.
What that Apple does is Open Source? This is the first time I’ve read this.
Darwin. Their BSD and the foundation of MacOS and therefore all the current OSes they produce.
Yeah, but that’s just the kernel. Anything above that (window manager, the utilities that they didn’t outright copy from BSD, apps, …) is basically closed source.
Yes
I have heard of Darwin, and went back to read up on it to refresh my memory. While it is considered open source, it is also useless unless it is used for Apple’s closed source operating systems, as can be appreciated in this explanation:
In the beginning, Apple used to make Darwin available as a separate OS, including compiled binaries, installers, ISOs, etc. that you could install on Apple hardware. However, for many years now, Apple only provides a source code dump, every time a new release of macOS comes out. It isn’t even possible to compile this source code, because it depends on Apple’s internal build tools and build pipeline. There have been some projects trying to patch Darwin to compile it with publicly available tools, but those projects have all died from lack of interest.
Open Source should be compilable and able to be used, at least that’s my perspective, and I just may be wrong.
Here’s the article this came from on StackExchange:
https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/401832/why-is-macos-often-referred-to-as-darwin
Swift, Webkit, Researchkit, Carekit, FoundationDB, CUPS, Darwin, LLVM and Clang, SwiftNIO, Turi Create, Homekit ADK,
Its one thing to be against a product but its essential to be well informed and not base our perceptions on biased informations.
Yup, that’s why I asked. I still hate Crapple and everything they stand for, but this is good data to start doing some in-depth research. Thanks.
Damn hating a product. You are damaged man.
Who says I am a man? Just kidding, I am. I do hate Apple, Google, Microsoft, Meta and every other company out there that operate business on a predatory model. Am I damaged? Absolutely, at so many levels it’s hard to count them. But that makes me just human, as you will find there is not 1 single human out there that is not damaged at some or other. On the brighter side, I am doing what I can to heal.
I’m not familiar with all of them, but I know several of them are tools. Isn’t it in apple’s best interest to open source the tools if people use and improve them, and subsequently it means they get more money from the app store? And if these are the only things they open source, they still have a tight fist on the vast majority of their code base.
While on the subject of apple and FOSS. They may open source some tools, but do they give back to other projects? I.e. does apple push upstream? Substantially less than google and ms. And I would go so far to say almost never.
As far as we know, apple’s system does not take screenshots automatically, storing them unencrypted, likely revealing secrets to other programs.
Recall doesn’t either… it’s encrypted with Windows Hello Auth
But once a process is running its trivial to get weeks of extremely detailed history and lots of secrets you thought were ephemeral
yes lol. have you ever talked to apple fanboys? its a cult where the corporation can’t possibly be wrong.
they will justify with flimsy justifications and hold their ground that its actually the best use of ai just yet.
apple fanboys. yes. the take it or leave it apple types would likely have a decent exodus. non apple users would not like but would not matter.
You’re saying this like Micro$hit isn’t just going to revert back to recall being opt-out (or non-removable) in a few weeks after the outrage dies down
