- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
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To be honest as an Android user, if Apple makes their phone less locked down and give more affordable choices for phones I may try an iPhone, as I am a bit fed up with Android, and there are no other real alternatives.
iPhone SE is their affordable line. Don’t see that changing anytime soon as it sells well.
It still costs nearly as much as minimal wage in my country (OK, ~$200 USD less), I am not going to buy it anytime soon.
You realize that Android being too open is a major reason for why it sucks and iOS being more locked down is precisely how they avoided going the same way, right?
Can you elaborate because this is not obvious to me. Maybe we sre thinking different things when we talk about “openness” in this context.
A walled garden works because it keeps the weeds out
I can’t afford a new one so I’m looking at used IPhone’s to get. Because Apple tends to support them for 5+ years, I still should get at least 2 years OS updates with a used one.
I’m thinking iPhone 13 is a good one to get.
I’m happy with GrapheneOS on my Google Pixel. It’s basically Android without the Google crap. It’s not for everyone though.
That said, I’d really like a third option. iOS is too locked down, Android phones have short support cycles (getting better, and is a huge reason why I picked Pixel), and Linux phones have fundamental hardware and software issues. I’m sad Microsoft, Palm, and Blackberry all gave up, there were interesting things happening in the mobile space back then.
I switched to Graphene in December and I can’t say it enough, GrapheneOS is everything I wanted Android to be for the past 15 years.
Are persistent notifications still a requirement for background apps, such as Signal? One of the reasons I switched to CalyxOS. Not the Signal persistent notification specifically, but it, in combination with all the others I needed running in the BG, made it very difficult to not miss new notifications. I like CalyxOS just fine, but I agree with you on GrapheneOS. I was very excited that it was exactly as I’ve always wanted android to be (but wasn’t), except for those persistent notifications.
I haven’t had to do anything special for signal, Home Assistant has some issues with permissions and not always reporting back if its on in the background. Still trying to figure out why its fine on mine but not on my son’s phone.
The fine tuned controls for things like network access, storage and contact scopes, etc. are just amazing.
You don’t have a persistent (albeit silent) notification for Signal and still receive push notifications? If so, my next OS may just be GOS.
The fine tuned controls are different than stock android? I thought GOS doesn’t alter the stock experience (more than is required to decrapify the OS)?
No, the only persistent notification I have to put up with is Tasker.
I honestly can say how far from stock it is because I have no clue when the last time I saw unadulterated Android (if ever lol), but it doesn’t have a lot of crap added to it.
That’s really great to hear. I’m currently on CalyxOS and, besides the Google crap added to stock, it’s very close to the last time I used stock (granted, it’s been a hot minute). Next phone will likely be GrapheneOS, as I believe my posture has shifted since I decided on CalyxOS, and the lack of persistent notifications for background tasks (such as Signal) was the main deterrent that allowed me to settle into a more relaxed posture.
Same. I thought it would be a bigger change, but it turns out I only need 5-6 apps from the Play store, and 3 need Google Play services. I only need those periodically, so I leave them in a separate profile.
My main profile has a bunch of F-Droid apps and a few manually side-loaded that update themselves. It’s pretty nice! I have also disabled most permissions on most apps, far more than stock Android lets me do (esp. sensors permission).
It’s pretty much what I want from Android. There are a handful of things I wish it did (I like shaking the phone on my Moto to get the flashlight), but all in all it’s what I expect from Android. I still want a Linux phone though.
I use Tasker to handle stuff like shaking for a light, enabling certain DND settings, etc.
I would love a phone that could dock and be a desktop replacement, I’m fine with using moonlight or something else to reach back to a server for games or bigger lifts than my phone can handle.
Cool, I’ll have to play with Tasker. I just got it recently and I think I have all my data synced over, but I haven’t gotten too far in customization.
BTW, do you know of anything like Niagara launcher? I liked that one quite a bit, but I didn’t find anything FOSS to replace it. The default is okay, I just want something that only lists a handful of apps to reduce clutter.
I just use the default one and put a couple folders on the home screen (one for stores, one for games, one for media, one for utility), then a couple widgets on the next screen over.
Locked to trust them. I have been a long time iPhone user. Is by far the best mobile OS. Is overpriced , yes and since at this point of my life where I give less fucks , next one would be whatever good cheap crap I can get.
What about RCS support in the new IOS?
But android doesnt run the llm locally. Can someone please make a foss app that can do simmillar things.
You could use this
The point of a local llm is u can give it access to contacts notes app control fucking everything simmillar to whaf apples done cool app tho.
No phones can run “LLMs” currently because by definition, large.
Some Android phones however can and does run smaller models locally. Gemini Nano runs on Pixel 8 and can run on Samsung phones.
There isn’t a FOSS app, but there is this
The only thing iOS really does better imo is the quick settings menu
Holy shit it sucks on Android compared to iOS
It looks better, it has more options, it has better overview and grouping
except it’s basically made useless by the fact that wifi/bt toggles don’t actually toggle off their respective radios, but just disconnect from the current network
Been that way for a long long time now.
Always was
Yep, and Android also suffers from plenty of malware within the Play Store. I’d rather a company focus on combating that than worrying so much about minor features.
I’d rather have to avoid malware than to live in Apple’s version of heaven where I can’t do shit with a $1000 computer that I own.
$1000 computer stand*
This is a common argument and it always makes me wonder what people mean by it. No ill intent from my end here, I use and like Apple as well as FOSS, but I can’t think of anything I can do on Android that I can’t on iOS. I admit I’m a very basic user though, I prefer to do heavy lifting on a laptop.
I am genuinely curious. Do you have some examples?
Syncthing, Termux [X11], sideloading, a browser other than safari
Wait you can forward X through Termux? TIL.
f-droid, termux, new rom if you want that… not paying $100/y just to install an app you developed(I know you can do that without paying but it’s not without major hassle)
I agree that alternative app stores are definitely a boon and I can’t wait for the EU to nail Apple to the wall over dragging their feet on that. Competition is good and that 30% fee monopoly is bullshit.
There are iOS terminal clients (I like Termius). The ROM thing, yeah… I installed /e/OS on my Fairphone 4 just for the privacy aspect, but functionally it’s not better or worse than what came in the box. There might be reasons to do it but utility-wise I don’t very well see the point in this day and age.
I hadn’t thought of the developer license requirement to run your own software, I personally don’t do that but I can see it being a deal breaker. Thanks for your thoughts. :)
Yeah and it sucks that they are how they are. iOS is a nice OS and iPhone is a damn good device. But these things are just deal breaker for me.
Android is 5 years ahead of iPhone 60% of the time
Not anymore. That was true for a few years but iOS has definitely overtaken Android. Plus when you include the entire Apple devices ecosystem, Arcade, TV+, Homepod, Continuity etc iOS FAR, FAR outstrips Android.
Android is a stand alone device but iPhone is one piece in a mosaic of devices and services.
This is why now, after the last 4 years on Android, I’m switching back to iPhone.
Plus the hardware and cameras on budget Android devices are shit and I’m tried of paying for shit.
The Snapdragon 695 came out 3+ years ago and yet Qualcomm just released this year the Snapdragon 6s gen 3, which is … the 695 with a slightly higher clock speed… 🤦
For €300 - €550 they keep selling us the same junk with a different name and colour and I’m done with that bs.
they keep selling us the same junk with a different name and colour and I’m done with that bs.
Proceeds to buy an iPhone.
Except the iPhone isn’t junk - best in class CPU, best in class cameras, best in class accessories, magsafe, best in class security(FaceID), best in class messaging with iMessage, best in class emoji/animoji/memoji, best in class OS updates, busy in class animations and app design, best in class post sales service, best in class devices ecosystem…
Huge difference.
iPhones haven’t had best in class cameras in years. One of the pain points of moving to iPhone was giving up the superior camera experience of Google pixels and Samsung phones.
- Pixel is good but outside the US is barely available
- The only good Samsung cameras are on the Galaxy S line aka premium models. The rest of the phones, the ones most people buy, are crap.
For the price of a used iPhone there is NO phone that can take as good photos and videos
Not at all. iPhones are very capable point and shoot camera phones, but even at a more budget price point iPhone cameras haven’t been best in class in at least 5 or 6 years.
The pixel 5-6 were like $600 phones with unmatched cameras and even better camera software. The modern non-pro pixels like the 7 and 8 also beat out all but the pro max models of recent iPhones.
Similar to that the Samsung fan edition phones were beating out iPhone cameras at a $600 price point brand new.
That isn’t to say there’s anything wrong with iPhone cameras, but they’re not nearly the best either. Even at lower price points. Like it’s becoming quite clear that you are just saying things at this point because you really like iPhones. But almost none of the things you claim are remotely true.
I’m not saying that because I like iPhones.
You are in the US so pixels are widely available and cheap. As is the FE series.
Where I live, outside the US, the Pixel is not sold nor will Google let you buy it. So pixel is a no go.
The Fan Edition Samsung costs virtually the same as the regular edition where I live, if you can find an FE. It costs €700+…
99% of our population can only afford €250-300 phones. €700 is out of reach unless you’re single, hehe a great job and still live with mum and dad. Or you are the 1%.
So at that price ALL the android cameras are shit, shit, shit.
So, if I import from the UK a used iPhone 12 it will cost about €350. At that price NOTHING can touch it below €700.
Everything below €700 is Chinese cheapie and Samsung cheapie, also known as crap phones.
If you want good photos, buy a real camera with a good lens and learn to manipulate raw files. Smartphone pictures will only look good on a tiny screen. The amount of postprocessing that takes place without any of your input makes the photos look bland. That said, android phones do have the better hardware and by saving the raw files you at least get to develop the pictures yourself, the way you want it, sort of.
You are using “they keep selling us the same junk with a different name” to justify apple? Hilarious.
As someone that flips between Samsung and iPhone they all are selling us the same shit every year. Smartphones in general have gotten stale. I can’t remember anything in the last 5 years that anyone has announced that made me think I have to upgrade my device. Maybe it’s just me but the tech seems boring now.
Phones aren’t stale. They peaked. That’s like saying umbrellas design has gotten stale. You just can’t improve the design much more.
Phone tech is really boring. Almost everything looks the same, they are all x% faster than last year’s model which still does everything perfectly fine. In terms of hardware, the phone has kinda reached the optimal place.
I’m not the target audience for bleeding edge phones though. I take photos, listen to music(using Bluetooth and wired headphones), browse the web and message people. I don’t really play games or use it for work.
By far the most interesting thing to me is foldable phones. I really like the idea of a flip phone, but I don’t think it would be too happy sitting in my sweaty pocket while I cycle.
Foldable phones are the dumbest shit. Only for people who like to spend too much money on an everyday object. It’s introducing an unnecessary potential point of failure.
Same, but I don’t really take pictures either, despite having arguably the best smartphone camera on the market (Pixel 8). I bought my phone because it has 7 years of updates, and I got a good deal on a used one.
So yeah, smartphones really aren’t my thing. If it browses the web, makes texts and calls, and works with my bluetooth headphones, I’m happy. I don’t need a big screen (I even “downgraded” a bit in screen size) and I’d prefer no selfie cam (almost never use it for video calls), but I work with what I’ve got to choose from.
What’s more far ahead than an ecosystem that you can’t leave without replacing all devices because they work poorly with anything other than Apple. If you don’t like all their products or Apple makes changes that you disagree with then sucks to be you, I guess.
Exactly. I have a work Macbook Pro, which I honestly dislike, and my wife has an iPhone and iPad (iPad is for drawing because the Apple pencil is better than alternatives). My wife won’t use an Apple computer because her games don’t work (mostly Lost Ark, but also others), I won’t use one because I much prefer Linux, and we don’t want yet another streaming service.
So Apple gets a big “meh” from me. It’s better than Windows for me, so I guess there’s that, but I’m really not interested in an “ecosystem.”
Apple pencil is better than alternatives
I can see your wife has never actually used a good drawing tablet. Wacoms beat even the latest iPad for drawing and are a tiny fraction of their cost.
Aren’t wacoms PC-accessories? She wants an independent tablet for drawing at the park and whatnot.
She has a wacom tablet for home though, but she’s never gotten the hang of it. Maybe I’ll push her to try again now that she’s more familiar with digital art.
There’s the MobileStudio Pro and Wacom is hardly the only brand. There’s also the Huion Kamvas Studio. Both are cheaper than an iPad Pro and both come in multiple sizes. I’m not sure about Huion but Wacom has had rotating barrel sensors on the pen for almost a decade.
Oh no most definitely. Since I’ve been using iOS (IOS 15) every update is just playing catchup on Android features. It’s actually why I finally switched from Android to iOS. iPhones have abandoned so much of their own design philosophy in favor of Androids, that iOS is practically just another flavor of Android like Samsungs or Huaweis. The friction to switch between phones has never been lower. I did however have to wait for iPhones to finally bring decent refresh rates to iOS before switching (above 60hz).
As evidenced by: this article
Oh wait
Are you on weed? This is my opinion, it doesn’t need any article…🤦
No the article you are replying to, lay off the crack.
Android can do satellite messaging? Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
I’m not an Apple fanboy nor do I use an iPhone currently but this headline is ridiculous.
Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
Do people actually want these?
LLM is AI correct? If my phone is going to do AI at all, I prefer it be done on device for sure. For privacy reasons if nothing else. But it’s not anything I’ve really looked into. I have the S24 and the only AI feature I use is the Circle to search… which I don’t consider to be AI.
LLM is a form of AI, specifically the text AIs like ChatGPT that have suddenly made “AI” a dinner table term. AI in some form or another is almost definitely being used in your device - even for things like filling in gaps in low-quality voice calls, and probably has been for a while. But the problem is that unlike those “old” AIs, LLMs require some significant power to run, so running them on phones will probably require meaningful trade-offs. But the increased security is also a meaningful benefit.
Yes, in fact that is the only kind of ai i would ever use and entrust my data with. Not the apple one, but an open source model that is running only on my device and answering only to me; using the data I provide only for my interests? That one I would use.
I bet these LLM models wont be 100% locally hosted. I imagine some form of data will be piped back to a cloud server
Apple’s cloud model is built as secure as is possible with current tech.
Is that why there are so many celebrity iCloud leaks floating around the internet?
It wasn’t a software issue, but a human issue. People got scammed and gave their logins away.
This system is built so that nobody can access it and they’ve went to extreme lengths to make it so. It’s also available for auditing, it hardware and software.
“secure” meaning “apple sees all your data”
The data is unavailable to Apple.
Isn’t Apple one of these companies that actually does not sell user’s data?
So? I don’t want apple themselves knowing my data either.
LMFAO
“It’s a very thoughtful design. Indeed, if you gave an excellent team a huge pile of money and told them to build the best “private” cloud in the world, it would probably look like this.”
- Matthew D Green, cryptography teacher at Josh Hopkins
You can go argue with him if you disagree.
“Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?”
…yes?
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta, and the LLM in the device will only be for iPhone 15 Pro and above, so most iPhone users will not be able to use it.
Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta
Perhaps in software, but I don’t think there is a current phone that has the hardware to take advantage. For now, this is essentially an Apple only feature. It’s a pretty good bet we are going to see some flagships released with it in the next year though.
(For iPhone 14 and iPhone 15 series only)
And? How many android devices can you name that actually support satellite messaging today? When the feature DOES come on the android side, I imagine it is going to probably be flagship devices as well. Seems to be a silly thing to call Apple out for.
Its been on every Pixel since the 7 I believe, I realize that’s only a couple iterations but its out there.
I know that Pixel 7’s and above support it. There are Reddit posts showing they have the feature already. Satellite messaging is just using standard 4G/LTE from Starlink. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is only an OS update away for most newer phones.
That’s pretty cool, I assumed they needed additional hardware. Thanks.
Android 15 beta… so it’ll be available on phones, out of the box, without anyone having to build/install a custom, on phones actual normal humans buy in about 2030 then.
But is Android doing the on device LLM already? Because it sounds like they aren’t…
https://www.androidauthority.com/how-to-get-gemini-nano-on-pixel-8-8a-3450466/
Pixel 8 pro already does. I’m not sure, but I think Samsung has something too.
I think Pixel 8 and 8a do too, or at least are capable, since they’re the same chip. I’d check, but I put GrapheneOS on my phone so I don’t have all of the Google stuff.
Ok. And android still sucks compared to Apple. Always full of bloatware and can never get updated or long term support. Only the Google phones have a decent OS
So you most likely wanted to say “and Samsung still sucks compared to Apple?” Google phones also run Android, you know.
Samsung has even cut most of the horseshit out. My S22 had like a few Samsung apps, they live in a folder and I never see them. But that is similar to all of the Apple apps you couldn’t remove either (don’t know if that’s changed, haven’t had an iPhone since the 4)
This is a ridiculous take. You can change any of that in Android easily, Apple locks you into BS without extreme measures
Good for Android, now if they’d only implement all of the Apple-only features that create the lock-in appeal then maybe they’ll get somewhere. When my Pixel Buds flow seamlessly from device to device to the third and fourth device then maybe we’ll talk
I have the Pixel Buds Pro and they kinda do that, but yeah not very well. I have them paired to my phone and my laptop, and sometimes randomly they’ll silently disconnect from my laptop and permanently pause whatever I was watching if my phone plays a notification. I can’t fix it until I disconnect from and reconnect to my laptop multiple times.
One time I was watching a video on my laptop and they randomly connected to my desktop! I hadn’t used them on my desktop in at least a year, until then!
All in all, they can flow seamlessly, but it’s 60/40 on if it works properly
At least the noise cancelling and passthrough are fun to mess with
How many devices do you switch between? For me, it’s phone, tablet, two laptops and my watch. I think that the Pixel Buds can switch between two without needing a re-pair. Meanwhile, I can stream my Apple TV audio to my AirPods as they’re also an audio source! Even if Google released basic support for this today, they still wouldn’t be able to fully catch up because they have no truly realized desktop/laptop OS so I’d live in a mixed ecosystem.
Presumably need Pixel everything for that but even then, as an android user I would rather be locked into an Apple eco than google.
My SO has current gen Pixel devices all around and it’s yet to materialize. To my mind, Google could sync Bluetooth pairing info across all Android devices if they put their minds to it. But even if they did, they would need to work with Microsoft and other vendors to get the kind of ambiguity that would compete with Apple’s product line. As it stands, if you buy the Apple product you get the best hardware and the software compliment is five years ahead than the competition. Google and Microsoft need to leapfrog
Exactly. Also memoji on Android would be nice as well as the better emoji content on iPhones…
The bedtime mode on iPhone is also very cool as well as the ability to set your contact photo which other iPhone users will see when they call you.
Plus I think Apple have done a better job with widgets because they look nicer and are stackable.
Imo as an android user, android has been neglected by Google for a while and apart from Samsung no other OEM’s are adding for software to rival Apple.
Which is one of many reasons why I’ll be switching back to iPhone. I see more and better user features being added to iOS.
The only thing Google has done with android lately is Material You, and it’s not as rich as apples customisation. And circle to search is a stupid feature which only benefits Google more than the user.
Like math notes. And handwriting fonts. And a customisable control centre. And phone mirroring. And locking apps natively. And pretty much all of Apple Intelligence (particularly Genmoji because I want a hyena emoji and Unicode doesn’t have one).
Hold on. This control centre thing is really annoying me over here on Android. iOS separates notifications and control centre into two separate groups. I have to swipe down twice on Android to do what took a single swipe on iOS. On top of this, clearing all notifications closes the drawer after a delay, automatically. Why? I can close it faster myself, and sometimes, I want it to stay open, but NOPE!
And then the control centre itself. Volume control just… doesn’t exist (key word: CONTROL). Brightness (which I use often) is all the way at the top, rather than the middle. Then, the control centre is split into PAGES at HALF SIZE, and they’re all just wide rectangular buttons. Then, no volume control. What the HELL is this!? I could long press to get an easy brightness slider for my torch, everything internet related was quickly accessible in a single square, and now you’re telling me iOS is even FURTHER ahead?
Did I mention there’s NO. VOLUME. CONTROL. I have to press a volume button, then a tiny on-screen button after that, and then I get sliders after I wait for the menu to pop up. Granted, that’s sliders (plural), but fuck me. This one HURTS. I sometimes find the buttons a little bit too stiff, so I usually use on-screen controls during screen on, and buttons while off.
So much for owning my phone, since I can barely change any of this, and I can only see the way my control centre looks after I’ve edited it.
FUCK!
This absolute abhorrence. The Gods forsake this wretched control centre design. It is genuinely agonising using this afterthought of an interface. This cannot stand.
I hate Apple and love Android but I can see the value in all the stuff you said. Doesn’t make me want to change teams but just letting you know there is an Android fanboy that sees value in what you said.
That doesn’t sound like my phone. Have you tried launchers? Or it could be specific to your manufacturer. That’s part of the problem with android - too many manufacturers wanting to customise their interface without a clear idea of what good UX is
I use Niagra. Launchers are home screen only. And, as long as I use anything related to stock Android, I’m stuck with this.
I have to swipe down twice on Android to do what took a single swipe on iOS.
swipe down with two fingers
I guess one-handed phones are really dead now
I switched to a iPhone mini not long ago, and I love how well it works one-handed
This… works. Ultimately one of the smaller issues (and different swipe regions are just easier), but it’s a little faster.
Wtf how have I used android for this long without knowing?
You can even quickly swipe twice.
Yooo that’s fire
I didn’t realise android did free SMS over satellite when there is no cellular connection
Looks like it’s been available on some android devices for at least a month. I don’t know about free though, I think it depends on your carrier. I know T-Mobile has been talking about supporting it using Starlink satellites.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/1ct1no1/satellite_messaging_option_appeared_on_my_pixel_7/ https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/first-spacex-satellites-launch-for-breakthrough-direct-to-cell-service-with-t-mobile
For me the importance is that it’s free - I wouldn’t even pay $5 a month for a service that I’d use in very unlikely situations probably once or twice a year.
But with the iPhone it’s free, and not carrier dependent and works outside of the United States for those of us in the rest of the world….
Isn’t the satellite thing just free temporarily?
They said it’s free for 2 years with any new purchase of iPhone since iPhone 14; and now they’ve extended it for 1 more year. No one has had to pay for any of it yet - and it’s unknown if/when/how it’ll be a paid service
i still like my android but i do wish they would get back to prioritising widgets again, like apple has done - and get developers to do it as well.
i also like apple watch over my samsung watch. i think the apple watch is top in it’s class - that combined with apple fitness+.
if apple could set defaults, use actual browsers (like android), and have an open in menu like android, i’d switch. i don’t think i could ever get used to apple’s notifications though. android is still superior there.
I’ve switch between iOS and Android, but good news on one of those you can set your default browser now on iOS.
not the same, though; browsers are still webkit.
also you can’t set phone or messaging or other defaults. in android, i can not have a default and get a pop up every time (or use linksheet) to ask how i want to open something
I’m looking forward to iOS 18 as I have to run an iPhone for work.
From what I understand, this update is gonna bring a lot of things iOS was lacking in terms of personalization.
Now I would really want them to improve on how things are handled outside of their walled garden as I’ll never buy a new mac (maybe an old one to run Linux) and they’re never gonna convince me with their old tricks of keeping special features between Apple devices.
We need a Linux version or equivalent to iTunes to backup your phone, better interoperability with Windows/Linux…
The iPhone is a great product but I feel like the walled garden is preventing me from fully enjoying it.
On Linux you can use https://libimobiledevice.org/ for backups and management.
