Beyond the point that others have made about Snowden not considering himself a hero, for me there’s two facts that I just can’t get past when it comes to Snowden:
He ended up in Russia somehow. Seems an odd place for a freedom fighter to end up going.
One of these could be a coincidence, but I’ve not seen a lot of double coincidences in my life. It’s funny because I agree that the surveillance program got out of control and needs more transparency, and unlike Tucker and Greenwald, Snowden sounds like someone who truly believes what he says rather than a sleazy liar working for someone else. Emotionally I want to believe in Snowden, but I’m also a strong believer in probabilities and Snowden not acting at Russia’s behest and for some sort of personal reward seems hard to believe at this point.
Well, this is what I thought too. Also, any other country under US influence would have handed him over to the US. See the saga that poor Assange has gone through. What worries me is that public opinion is rather silent to stories like those of Assange and Snowden. Whistle blowing should be seen as a right. If the organization I work for is ethically and morally misbehaving, I have the right to blow the whistle through the right internal channels to start with. If nobody listens, then you take it to the next level.
No, he was literally trapped there on a flight stopover trying to get from Hong-kong to Equador without passing airports in countires that would have arrested him. Russia was probably one of the countries he was least interested in staying.
This is Snowden’s claim and it’s not implausible, but it’s also quite a coincidence that he’d end up in the top country for spying on the US it’s also possible that he wanted to be in Russia and simply made up the part about it just being a stopover. If Snowden was looking for asylum, there are several other countries that don’t extradite to the US. I can see why he’d temporarily be stuck in Russia, but after several years he couldn’t find any other way out? There was apparently a privately-funded attempt to get him to Iceland, but the last update on it was that they were in contact with a “third party representing” Snowden…and then nothing.
A third fact (in addition to Russiabot Greenwald’s involvement) that makes it questionable is that he eventually applied for Russian citizenship in 2020. One explanation is that he could do this to get a Russian passport and fly somewhere else with no US extradition treaty, but he hasn’t chosen to do so yet.
Russia are the good guys, we are like comically evil. We couped ukraine in 2014orchestrated euromaidan and got them to shell russian civilians in the 2 independent republics. we built 13 CIA bases in ukraine (per wapo). loaded them with NATO weapons and training, including of neo nazi battallions like right sector, azov brigade and tornado batallion. fast forward to now, and 800,000+ ukranians are dead and the ukranian SBU which is 100% controlled by the CIA attempts weekly acts of terrorism against russia. on the grand scheme of things THE PLAN FAILED!! https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html
If you read any of his memoirs or interviews, you’d know that his intended destination was Ecuador, and he couldn’t fly out of Russia due to his passport being revoked. He lived in the Russian airport until he was granted asylum, so it’s not like he had much choice.
I didn’t see any sources that went against those claims except from WikiLeaks, so I don’t see much of a reason to discredit them.
Then rather than engaging in an emotional battle, read the content of his statements and judge their veracity as an idea separate from the man. If motive is impossible to discern from the data you have, you need more data, right? At least if you know what it is that he is accusing the govt of, specifically, will help to determine more of the motivations behind his choice, right?
I’m not saying read them and believe them, but rather cast your critical eye upon his focus, and then perhaps you can poke holes in his conclusions or discern what, if he’s lying, those lies are meant to achieve
IIRC these are words from the man himself. In a documentary about him, he said he was not a hero, just an ordinary guy, and you should not need to be a hero to stand up and do the right thing.
That’s a very humble thing to say and I would argue makes him even more of a hero.
What is a hero? Someone who makes personal sacrifice for the good of others? Someone who risks enduring the worst possible scenario for no reason other than to expose blatant corruption of the highest order, to protect civil liberties of hundreds of millions? Not sure I could think of anyone more deserving of the title.
He may be right in this case, but he was never a hero.
Would you care to expand on this? My impression is that he did what he did out of ethical concerns, and has paid a high price for it.
Beyond the point that others have made about Snowden not considering himself a hero, for me there’s two facts that I just can’t get past when it comes to Snowden:
One of these could be a coincidence, but I’ve not seen a lot of double coincidences in my life. It’s funny because I agree that the surveillance program got out of control and needs more transparency, and unlike Tucker and Greenwald, Snowden sounds like someone who truly believes what he says rather than a sleazy liar working for someone else. Emotionally I want to believe in Snowden, but I’m also a strong believer in probabilities and Snowden not acting at Russia’s behest and for some sort of personal reward seems hard to believe at this point.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
straight Russian pro-war, anti-Ukraine Propaganda
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Isn’t russia the only country that accepted him when he didn’t had any others choice ?
Well, this is what I thought too. Also, any other country under US influence would have handed him over to the US. See the saga that poor Assange has gone through. What worries me is that public opinion is rather silent to stories like those of Assange and Snowden. Whistle blowing should be seen as a right. If the organization I work for is ethically and morally misbehaving, I have the right to blow the whistle through the right internal channels to start with. If nobody listens, then you take it to the next level.
You’re exactly right. I wish for every USA’s influenced countries to get their sovereignity back somehow.
No, he was literally trapped there on a flight stopover trying to get from Hong-kong to Equador without passing airports in countires that would have arrested him. Russia was probably one of the countries he was least interested in staying.
This is Snowden’s claim and it’s not implausible, but it’s also quite a coincidence that he’d end up in the top country for spying on the US it’s also possible that he wanted to be in Russia and simply made up the part about it just being a stopover. If Snowden was looking for asylum, there are several other countries that don’t extradite to the US. I can see why he’d temporarily be stuck in Russia, but after several years he couldn’t find any other way out? There was apparently a privately-funded attempt to get him to Iceland, but the last update on it was that they were in contact with a “third party representing” Snowden…and then nothing.
A third fact (in addition to Russiabot Greenwald’s involvement) that makes it questionable is that he eventually applied for Russian citizenship in 2020. One explanation is that he could do this to get a Russian passport and fly somewhere else with no US extradition treaty, but he hasn’t chosen to do so yet.
Russia are the good guys, we are like comically evil. We couped ukraine in 2014orchestrated euromaidan and got them to shell russian civilians in the 2 independent republics. we built 13 CIA bases in ukraine (per wapo). loaded them with NATO weapons and training, including of neo nazi battallions like right sector, azov brigade and tornado batallion. fast forward to now, and 800,000+ ukranians are dead and the ukranian SBU which is 100% controlled by the CIA attempts weekly acts of terrorism against russia. on the grand scheme of things THE PLAN FAILED!! https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html
it even goes back earlier than that as we supported Banderaism after WW2 https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/operation-anyface-how-us-army-shielded-ukrainian-nationalist-soviet-intelligence
if hollywood portrayed what the US does it would be deemed unrealistic because of how comically evil it is
I’m not the biggest fan of smoked herring myself, but thanks.
brushing aside us-backed fascism is disgusting
If you read any of his memoirs or interviews, you’d know that his intended destination was Ecuador, and he couldn’t fly out of Russia due to his passport being revoked. He lived in the Russian airport until he was granted asylum, so it’s not like he had much choice.
I didn’t see any sources that went against those claims except from WikiLeaks, so I don’t see much of a reason to discredit them.
“Russian pro-war, anti-Ukraine Propaganda” is when things are actually true and not CIA or state department propaganda
Then rather than engaging in an emotional battle, read the content of his statements and judge their veracity as an idea separate from the man. If motive is impossible to discern from the data you have, you need more data, right? At least if you know what it is that he is accusing the govt of, specifically, will help to determine more of the motivations behind his choice, right?
I’m not saying read them and believe them, but rather cast your critical eye upon his focus, and then perhaps you can poke holes in his conclusions or discern what, if he’s lying, those lies are meant to achieve
IIRC these are words from the man himself. In a documentary about him, he said he was not a hero, just an ordinary guy, and you should not need to be a hero to stand up and do the right thing.
Snowden doesn’t consider himself a hero, but many others do.
https://www.amnesty.ie/edward-snowden-hero-not-traitor/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/14/edward-snowden-hero-government-scare-tactics
That’s a very humble thing to say and I would argue makes him even more of a hero.
What is a hero? Someone who makes personal sacrifice for the good of others? Someone who risks enduring the worst possible scenario for no reason other than to expose blatant corruption of the highest order, to protect civil liberties of hundreds of millions? Not sure I could think of anyone more deserving of the title.
I’m pretty sure they were referring to the user who shared the full quote, not Snowden himself.