I’ve been using all major OSes for a long time. I have the most experience with Windows, I’ve been using it since Windows 95 and stopped at Windows 8. I’ve been using macOS for about a decade and Linux (in total) for about 5 years. I have started with Mandrake, moved to Mandriva, spent over a year on Ubuntu and recently I’ve been using Fedora as my daily driver. And honestly, I’m running out of patience.
Few days ago I ran into the gpu driver issue. Long story short, Steam games started to crash on directx issue. Games that were working few weeks ago. I admit, I was mocking around with GPU drivers in order to make Podman containers to access the GPU. But I did the fresh diver install and it didn’t solved the issue (also my GPU was not found despite all commands showed it was there). I don’t have much spare time and I would like to play a game, I used to play before, without spending hours/days fixing issue that didn’t exist last time I played it.
But it’s not only about games. I have two laptops, both running Fedora 40 KDE spin. Some time ago on one laptop the power widget stopped working. It shows “no power profiles found on a device”. But when I delete the widget and add it again, it works fine.
Other issue is with the general look and feel. There are many apps that don’t follow the OS look - lack of window borders/shadow, random icons that don’t match the system, flatpacks having issues accessing system configuration (e.g. vscodium not recognising zsh as a default shell).
Few more problems I had:
- on GNOME, some extensions where crashing without any reason
- some apps don’t respect desktop scaling
- bluetooth randomly dropping connections
- syncing files between devices is always a struggle
- you never know what’s going to break when installing updates
If you want a Linux like experience use macOS, and if you want to play games, stick to Windows.
For your bullet points:
- Yeah, GNOME can be flakey with extensions. Almost no regular users will install extensions though. Windows also has tons of bugs and issues that users just ignore because it’s the “default”
- Regular users won’t care about desktop scaling. I’ve seen people using the blurriest, weirdest aspect ratios on Windows because they liked it that way
- Bluetooth sucks on all hardware and with all software, to various degrees.
- Syncing files is trivial with Syncthing
- MacOS keeps breaking my coworker’s setups with every update.
GPU issues can be hard, but that’s not really Linux’s fault. There’s a reason this image exists of Linux giving nvidia the middle finger:
That being said, it’s getting better. As of this year, nvidia has started putting some real effort into making things work with wayland.
EDIT: I’ve found nirvana with NixOS, speaking of GPU drivers. I just add a few lines to
/etc/nixos/configuration.nixand it goes off and ensures that the nvidia drivers are present. I also run lots of CUDA stuff on top of that and it all works about as seamlessly as possible.Mate. Stick with Windows or MacOS. I don’t think Linux is for you.
My kids, who began using Linux at home and then Chrome OS since the ages of 5 ,would suggest that it’s only older users who are completely stuck in their ways and can’t adapt to different operating systems.
tldr: Linux can have driver issues and programs or updates might not work as expected. So anything you can expect from any major OS.
GPU doesn’t work after being reconfigured
On GNOME extensions crash
“I made modifications to my system and broke it”
Syncing files between devices is always a struggle
Syncthing?
Never know what will break when updating
Read your updates before you do them?
Bluetooth and scaling are not issues I’ve ever run in to, but I can’t say they’re not common.
Basically, this whole post reads as “I messed with things that I didn’t properly understand and I’m blaming my computer for doing what I told it instead of what I wanted”
Why you say “Linux” when you mean “Fedora”?
Computers are not a good choice for “regular users”. Get them a locked-down iPhone and be done with it.
What you are describing is not a situation unique to Linux - or even Windows. “Software is hard and it sometimes breaks”. My Windows 11 laptop that I use for work and to which I have made exactly zero modifications sometimes doesn’t recognize when I’ve connected external speakers. And I can’t disable hyper-v despite following all of the instructions. This is a corporate provisioned and managed system and simple stuff just doesn’t work.
X% of all things have bugs. Your mistake is in thinking that the percentage that you’re seeing are somehow special or related to the particular OS you’re running at the time. The classic “the grass is greener” fallacy. This is pretty evidenced also by the fact that you’re a classic “distro hopper” whose always looking for the perfect system rather than taking the time to understand the problems and deal with them as they come.
I’d be careful of pushing the narrative about computers not being a good choice for regular users. I’m going to channel a bit of Stallman and say that that’s how we end up without The Right To Read
That’s fair - I’m not saying users shouldn’t be able or allowed to use computers, but just that it’s been proven over and over again that most people simply don’t get computers. They should always have the option to learn what they can though.
You must be LTT’s chaperone
Thanks for reminding me, there’s also " supporting" linux community…
Yes, that, in fact, is an unpopular opinion here.
You were fucking with your GPU drivers, lost access to your GPU, and you have concluded from that that “regular users” (who don’t know what a driver is or does) should not use Linux?
He listed just a few more things then that
As I said, I did a clean install and still all Steam games were failing on directx issue. Also, a “regular” user when switching to Linux will have to know what a GPU driver is in order to use it, event if it’s just for playing games. And the cherry on top - once I fixed the directx issue and I was able to play a game I wanted, the drivers update broke it. And despite spending days on fixing the issue, I got back to a square one.
If they use windows they also know what a GPU driver is, if they use AMD that’s better on linux, they don’t need to know what a GPU driver is. Unless of course the “normal” user need a rocm driver.
if they use AMD that’s better on linux, they don’t need to know what a GPU driver is.
Same goes for Intel, unless they need to use OneAPI.
started with Mandrake, moved to Mandriva, spent over a year on Ubuntu and recently I’ve been using Fedora
Another unpopular opinion:
That’s because you’ve been using distributions that are either behind the times or have a lot of wonky crap added to them that looks like user friendliness when it works and is like fixing windows when it doesn’t (I’ve been through similar path, just with a few other distros along the way)Start with Gentoo or Arch (maybe Slackware). These are close to the grass, so the way to set things up is the way to fix things up
some apps don’t respect desktop scaling
are these gtk based apps? Different toolsets require different envs
syncing
Have you tried syncthing?
Start with Gentoo or Arch
I wouldn’t recommend arch to general users. I consider myself a general linux user, and figuring out Arch, even after the installation hurdle, wasn’t easy for me.
is like fixing windows when it doesn’t
I don’t think Arch really makes that easy. Although, I guess archwiki is pretty great. Even arch forum helped me a lot with respect to other disto.
Start with Gentoo or Arch (maybe Slackware). These are close to the grass, so the way to set things up is the way to fix things up
I’ve tried Mint, openSUSE, Debian, Gentoo and Arch but I had other, non-regular user issues with those. I wanted to point out the standard issues.
are these gtk based apps? Different toolsets require different envs
Some were GTK based other were “optimised” for KDE
Have you tried syncthing?
Yes, I use it on a daily basis but there’s no easy way to get it working on iOS/iPadOS.
I was mocking around with GPU drivers in order to make Podman containers to access the GPU. (…) I don’t have much spare time and I would like to play a game, I used to play before, without spending hours/days fixing issue that didn’t exist last time I played it.
And
I had other, non-regular user issues with those
I think, you should keep these two things (messing with containers accessing GPU and “just play a game”) separate. I mean on separate boxes. Because now you can’t “just play” because you’ve been elbows deep in OS internals. You can’t take apart your fridge and then expect it to just cool the water the next day
“optimised” for KDE
Then I’m guessing these might need some KDE envs
Yes, I use it on a daily basis but there’s no easy way to get it working on iOS/iPadOS.
Ah, you’re trying to breach the non-open wall. Is there an app on i* that allows you to set up an ftp/http file sharing server on the device? You probably could set it up as rclone upstream
I think, you should keep these two things (messing with containers accessing GPU and “just play a game”) separate. I mean on separate boxes. Because now you can’t “just play” because you’ve been elbows deep in OS internals. You can’t take apart your fridge and then expect it to just cool the water the next day
I agree, that’s a valid point. But, I had a clean system, prepared for a normal user (clean install, official repositories, etc. And still GPU drivers refusded to work. I have covered all basics before I asked for help and even I got some good advice that worked, I ended up in the same place.
Then I’m guessing these might need some KDE envs
True, but sill for a regular user it looks like “Linux is ugly”
Ah, you’re trying to breach the non-open wall. Is there an app on i* that allows you to set up an ftp/http file sharing server on the device? You probably could set it up as rclone upstream
I know too well the unbreakable apple garden. And I don’t mind tinkering with it but again, we are at the regular user level, that wants things just to work.
I think Windows has a very poor track record for ui consistency as well. It feels like every Windows app wants to roll its own UI; Firefox, Discord, Steam etc. I know Discord and Steam also have those issues on Linux as well, but it feels like every Windows app wants to roll out it’s own window decorarions and theme.
Honestly, I’m pleased at how consistent most gtk based apps look.
Windows can’t even get their own UI right.
Look at the win10 control panel. Nearly a decade later and we still have to use the classic control panel to change settings.
If you want to edit macros in Excel, you’ll see a Vista window. Vista! In 2024!
Linux sucks, Windows is worse, MacOS is useless. We must conclude that those systems are not a good choice for regular users. I recommend a simple pocket calculator instead. No graphics drivers to worry about, no firmware updates, if it goes wrong you just press the reset button and it’s ready to go again in a tenth of a second, no need to do backups, you can get a pretty good one for $20, light weight, really good battery life. Much better in almost every way.
sounds reasonable
‘28008 3434’, can share memes on those things too, you just need to hold it upside down
A Macbook Pro 2016 user here (MacOS and EndeavourOS dual boot)
KDE: some menu options freeze, can’t change keyboard layout
Me: slow transition towards i3wm, write some basic scripts to get what I want working
it took it like 7 months to finally have issue: dbus timeouts when launching some applications
Reinstalled and it works. Well has some issues, like audio and wifi take effort to get working.
Also I find Flatpaks a headache to work with. Easy to set up, but I would consider it rather messy.
I still kinda use MacOS. Would I recommend? Yes, but under specific circumstances. You may need to buy some software. I can get what I want with Homebrew (unless you
--no-quarantineit verifies the apps after each update). Is kinda plug and play system when going from Apple to Apple, but in terms of customizability and functionality Linux is superior. Also newer MacOS is awful when it comes to storage. I don’t even know how it is possible for it to take so much space with it magical bits I don’t need neither want and can’t delete. Also get your wallet ready, since older Apple products lose support and you can’t simply upgrade your OS (technically can with some effort), so you can buy a new Mac. And I can tell you that it sometimes gets annoying when you can’t install things just because OS version. MacOS is not meant for much gaming neither for people that want to use it for development, it is possible, but harder thanks to its dir structure. Also it is harder to make MacOS builds and get proper scaling on retina displays (some apps get blurry). Also Mojave is the last OS version to support 32 bit (rip gaming). No Steam Proton. And you can’t just disable external monitors unless you unplug them (great for my modular setup with more than one machine and one monitor), which I find really inconvenient. The monitor is multi input but my notebook is stil outputting to that damn display and prefers it for launching applications on there. Meaning I can’t work on it without either this pain or disconnecting it with one utility I found that has an issue on github that you can’t reconnect the monitor unless you reboot. Also why can’t I set a 60Hz monitor to 60Hz and 30Hz is the maximum? (can do on Linux with no issue)And did I mention I tried to run Krita on my MBP and it sounds like a jet? Yea, performance is sometimes great on weaker MacOS devices
So yes, go buy that awersone Apple computer, but don’t expect it to work flawlessly. There’s plenty of little details that in the end mess up your day and user experience.
I mean, if you have money for the newest Msomething macs then sure buy one, but if you want to buy older, look for those that can run Linux with decent hardware support, or you’ll regret your purchase.
Did you mean computers are a bad choice for regular users?
Something something touch grass. Bugs exist in all OSs. If my data sold & being advertized + tracked by a US-based company’s closed-source OS is the alternative, then I am just turning off the computer & starting a farm.
