I show people pictures of guys like him every time I see some bigot talk about how women are uncomfortable changing next to trans women in locker rooms and that they should be restricted to biological sex. “So you’re saying women will be comfortable changing next to that “woman,” are you?'”
People will make up all kinds of mental gymnastics and arguments to say that it is not the case. But yes it’s good. The only way to overcome this in a fair manner would be to have genderless competition, and the result will be male domination of said competition. What causes the less harm in this case is, sadly, excluding people from the competition.
That being said, if it were up to me I’d leave it for the people in the competition to have the final say. I know it’s hard at the school level to do that, but my argument there is that no one under 18 should be using hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria. In college level, the leagues should let the athletes make the decision.
my argument there is that no one under 18 should be using hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria.
You do not deserve to stand between psychiatrists, endocrinologists and their patients. The medical community overwhelming disagrees with this assertion and you do not have the right, authority or education to make these sort of limitations.
People will make up all kinds of mental gymnastics
Science. We use scientific studies. Your gut reaction and feelings are not more valid than numerous peer reviewed studies.
I do not refute that gender affirming care does lead to better outcomes. I said that no one under 18 should be receiving hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria, given the very permanent effects of such a thing and the well documented inability of making long term decision with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex.
Counseling, and other non hormonal or surgical treatments should be the norm until 18 or even 21.
This is an impasse, I know. I for one would love to see studies being carried out by research teams made up of people that oppose the treatment of minors. As it stands (as far as I’ve seen) every research has been carried out by people who were already in favor of it, making it biased by definition.
I do not refute that gender affirming care does lead to better outcomes. I said that no one under 18 should be receiving hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria
Please actually read the links. It very clearly leads to better outcomes for minors.
It literally stops suicides. What people like this are essentially saying is that they are okay with children committing suicide for the sake of the children.
Are you also opposed to people under 18 undergoing chemotherapy for cancer, given the very permanent effects of such a thing? Or is dysphoria the only medical condition you think children should be made to just suffer from?
If you want to have a serious discussion at least try to use serious arguments. I will answer with the same amount of bad faith that you asked that question.
Yes, gender dysphoria is the only condition I can think of to which this applies. It is a very unique condition, so that should not be surprising.
Sure let’s base everything off of kid’s and young adult’s birth genitalia rather than their athletic abilities in athletic competitions. I guess all that noise about “meritocracy” was just bullshit, right? Also the noise about “participation trophies” was bullshit too since we can’t have anyone with any perceived advantages in competitive environments.
Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lower-body strength.
Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lung function.
Transgender women had a higher percentage of fat mass, lower fat-free mass, and weaker handgrip strength compared to cisgender men.
Transgender women’s bone density was found to be equivalent to that of cisgender women, which is linked to muscle strength.
There were no meaningful differences found between the two groups’ hemoglobin profiles. Hemoglobin (Hb) plays a crucial role in athletic performance by facilitating improved oxygen delivery to muscles. Elite endurance athletes may exhibit up to a 40% higher level of Hb compared to untrained individuals. Moreover, heightened levels of Hb typically correlate with enhanced aerobic performance.
I want you to stop and really think critically about what you are trying to suggest. Do you really think it’s a good idea for trans men who are regularly taking testosterone should be forced to compete against women who aren’t?
How many trans athletes do you think there are that there’s enough for leagues? Some states have like single digits. It’s ridiculous. The fact that a president is spending time on this is absurd. This is a local school district issue if that.
Do away with gendered leagues and put it into a multi-tiered system when people compete for positions in different tiers, and potentially have multiple paths so that people can see games of sheer power or precise technique and there’s never a situation like three Pats or the Yankees where money is what buys the best team (all players in a tier would have similar performance).
I’ve been under the impression that the top leagues NFL, MLB, NHL, etc… aren’t necessarily gendered, but women just can’t compete. That’s why they have women only leagues so they have a place they can compete. Am I wrong about this?
Ah yes, the Air Bud rule of women in men’s sports.
Do you think any woman would have a chance in those leagues? The minute they even tried, they would start getting so much shit.
Jackie Robinson was one of the bravest men who ever lived. He was far from the first to break the “unwritten” color barrier in baseball. Everyone else who tried had been driven off before they could even start. And I’m guessing he wasn’t getting the rape threats any woman who wanted to try would get.
There are sports where women have reached or surpassed men’s records, for example long-distance endurance races or some accuracy-based competitions. Anything where raw explosive strength or size isn’t the main deciding factor. There are examples in history where women have been banned from participating in specific sports because they have been able to win in competition with men.
I think, for the leagues you listed, size, strength and speed are often key, and as such most men have an advantage over most women. I don’t doubt there could be exceptions to that rule.
I have asked people like this multiple times if the best WNBA player is better than the worst NBA player, and they usually say yes without having any possible way to know that.
That’s good, right? Biological men compete with biological men and biological girls compete with biological girls? That’s fair, right?
You don’t know any trans ppl do you?
Sure just kill 12 specific kids across the entire US in the name of “being fair”. Fuck those 12 kids. How DARE they exist.
You’re telling me this guy should be going up against women?
I show people pictures of guys like him every time I see some bigot talk about how women are uncomfortable changing next to trans women in locker rooms and that they should be restricted to biological sex. “So you’re saying women will be comfortable changing next to that “woman,” are you?'”
In bodybuilding, yes. Does he even lift?
People will make up all kinds of mental gymnastics and arguments to say that it is not the case. But yes it’s good. The only way to overcome this in a fair manner would be to have genderless competition, and the result will be male domination of said competition. What causes the less harm in this case is, sadly, excluding people from the competition.
That being said, if it were up to me I’d leave it for the people in the competition to have the final say. I know it’s hard at the school level to do that, but my argument there is that no one under 18 should be using hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria. In college level, the leagues should let the athletes make the decision.
You do not deserve to stand between psychiatrists, endocrinologists and their patients. The medical community overwhelming disagrees with this assertion and you do not have the right, authority or education to make these sort of limitations.
Science. We use scientific studies. Your gut reaction and feelings are not more valid than numerous peer reviewed studies.
not to mention you shouldn’t fucking be a cunt about trans people.
I do not refute that gender affirming care does lead to better outcomes. I said that no one under 18 should be receiving hormonal treatment to treat gender dysphoria, given the very permanent effects of such a thing and the well documented inability of making long term decision with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex.
Counseling, and other non hormonal or surgical treatments should be the norm until 18 or even 21.
This is an impasse, I know. I for one would love to see studies being carried out by research teams made up of people that oppose the treatment of minors. As it stands (as far as I’ve seen) every research has been carried out by people who were already in favor of it, making it biased by definition.
Please actually read the links. It very clearly leads to better outcomes for minors.
It literally stops suicides. What people like this are essentially saying is that they are okay with children committing suicide for the sake of the children.
Are you also opposed to people under 18 undergoing chemotherapy for cancer, given the very permanent effects of such a thing? Or is dysphoria the only medical condition you think children should be made to just suffer from?
If you want to have a serious discussion at least try to use serious arguments. I will answer with the same amount of bad faith that you asked that question.
Yes, gender dysphoria is the only condition I can think of to which this applies. It is a very unique condition, so that should not be surprising.
Amazing how transphobes never even try to address this. It’s almost as if they’re acting in bad faith
Didn’t you know? Transphobes are far more well-versed in human sexual biology than anyone who studies it for a living.
Degrees from Asshole University are more well-regarded than Harvard or Oxford.
Very level headed take. I agree.
Sure let’s base everything off of kid’s and young adult’s birth genitalia rather than their athletic abilities in athletic competitions. I guess all that noise about “meritocracy” was just bullshit, right? Also the noise about “participation trophies” was bullshit too since we can’t have anyone with any perceived advantages in competitive environments.
It’s not that simple, you need to understand the effects that Hormone Replace Therapy has on the body. Men and trans women physically do not have the same body and the studies even shows trans women perform worse than cis women in most areas.
Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lower-body strength.
Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lung function.
Transgender women had a higher percentage of fat mass, lower fat-free mass, and weaker handgrip strength compared to cisgender men.
Transgender women’s bone density was found to be equivalent to that of cisgender women, which is linked to muscle strength.
There were no meaningful differences found between the two groups’ hemoglobin profiles. Hemoglobin (Hb) plays a crucial role in athletic performance by facilitating improved oxygen delivery to muscles. Elite endurance athletes may exhibit up to a 40% higher level of Hb compared to untrained individuals. Moreover, heightened levels of Hb typically correlate with enhanced aerobic performance.
I want you to stop and really think critically about what you are trying to suggest. Do you really think it’s a good idea for trans men who are regularly taking testosterone should be forced to compete against women who aren’t?
Sounds like we need trans leagues.
How many trans athletes do you think there are that there’s enough for leagues? Some states have like single digits. It’s ridiculous. The fact that a president is spending time on this is absurd. This is a local school district issue if that.
Fewer than 10 nationwide playing in college and that probably includes ftm.
https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/5046662-ncaa-president-transgender-athletes-college-sports/
Do away with gendered leagues and put it into a multi-tiered system when people compete for positions in different tiers, and potentially have multiple paths so that people can see games of sheer power or precise technique and there’s never a situation like three Pats or the Yankees where money is what buys the best team (all players in a tier would have similar performance).
I’ve been under the impression that the top leagues NFL, MLB, NHL, etc… aren’t necessarily gendered, but women just can’t compete. That’s why they have women only leagues so they have a place they can compete. Am I wrong about this?
Ah yes, the Air Bud rule of women in men’s sports.
Do you think any woman would have a chance in those leagues? The minute they even tried, they would start getting so much shit.
Jackie Robinson was one of the bravest men who ever lived. He was far from the first to break the “unwritten” color barrier in baseball. Everyone else who tried had been driven off before they could even start. And I’m guessing he wasn’t getting the rape threats any woman who wanted to try would get.
There are sports where women have reached or surpassed men’s records, for example long-distance endurance races or some accuracy-based competitions. Anything where raw explosive strength or size isn’t the main deciding factor. There are examples in history where women have been banned from participating in specific sports because they have been able to win in competition with men.
I think, for the leagues you listed, size, strength and speed are often key, and as such most men have an advantage over most women. I don’t doubt there could be exceptions to that rule.
I have asked people like this multiple times if the best WNBA player is better than the worst NBA player, and they usually say yes without having any possible way to know that.
Only thing that is fair imo.
Fair to whom?