The whole thing: The girls doing it NSFW content and selling it, the dudes buying into it mostly because they won’t have any of it in real life, the way society sees it… Thoughts?
Personally I think every adult woman can do whatever the fuck she wants with her body and sexuality, even sell it. But obviously there will be consequences later in life if she wants to became a mother… And it shouldn’t be like that anymore.
The dudes buying “their girlfriend” there is complicated. At first I made fun of them but now I realised for many men, myself included, is that fake sexual relationship (or even fake sentimental relationships) or NOTHING. I won’t buy any of that for myself, since the fake part kills any allure for me, plus preferring to keep that little money I got left in my wallet but I understand more why more men do it. Is their only shot to a reality close to a relationship, is that or AI girlfriends.
People need money, people want to pay for sex, it’s a lot less exploitative than a lot of alternatives
I am 100% on board with people doing with their body whatever they want. Restricting that is just ridiculous.
But that also necessarily means, they can decide to do immoral things with their body, which I do not need to be a fan of. And that’s where I’m still somewhat undecided on how to think of the whole sex work industry.As you say, to some degree, it is simply mental care for those customers. I do think, the offering should exist.
But it’s also all too easy for it to become extremely exploitative.I’m thinking, in some far-off, progressive future (not sure, if we get there before work stops really being a thing), there would be self-help groups or simply therapy offerings, for those who spend their life earnings on getting sex work done.
It is a human flesh market. Capitalism is preying on women in this. Women shouldn’t have to sell their bodies to make ends meet. If people had a proper safety net and they still decide to sell themselves that would be a different story. It’s abhorrent as it stands.
Isn’t that true for all kinds of jobs, not just sex work?
What about selling your muscle for construction work, your face for an advertisement or your voice for airport announcements? Maybe selling your naked body is not much different than these apart from the bad connotations that you have about sex.
How is it different to other forms of labour or would you equally condemn those under capitalism?
Think of how you look at it when the coercion is overt.
I’m sure we both forced laborand rape (overtly coerced labor, overtly coerced sexual contact). Do you think one is more harmful than the other and takes a unique psychological toll? Edit: what about for a person who endures both?
There are some subtleties due to the different kinds of content that count as porn, but hopefully this explains why many left feminist organizations advocate for the abolition of the sex trade.
In addition, remember that one in seven people in the sex trade in the US are trafficked.
Yeah of course I oppose those things but I don’t see it as comparable at all. Something being included as an option in the job market is very different from forcing people to do it. There are far more harmful jobs that risk severe physical and mental injury that aren’t even paid particularly well.
In addition, remember that one in seven people in the sex trade in the US are trafficked.
A very serious topic worthy of discussion in it’s own right but I don’t see how that’s related. If anything this would be a good reason to legalise and regulate wouldn’t it?
EDIT: also important to note that people of any gender can work in the sex trade.
Yeah of course I oppose those things but I don’t see it as comparable at all. Something being included as an option in the job market is very different from forcing people to do it.
Under most anti-capitalist conceptions it is well understood that you must either work or die, and there is naturally an element of coercion. Wage slavery isn’t just hyperbole. Capitalism drives down wages to bare subsistence and even below. The exceptions tend to be in imperialist countries that provide a relatively higher income by extracting from other countries’ workers and resources. But even then we all know you have to work or die, in the end. You are always threatened with the example of the difficult lives of the unhoused. They help remind you of how little you have to back you up. Housing is the first to go. Or maybe health.
This naturally makes it comparable, as there is the element of coercion. We are left to argue about the extent of the coercion.
A very serious topic worthy of discussion in it’s own right but I don’t see how that’s related. If anything this would be a good reason to legalise and regulate wouldn’t it?
I invite you to familiarize yourself with how trafficking works. Just guessing in the dark does not do the people affected justice.
EDIT: also important to note that people of any gender can work in the sex trade.
Cool well leftist feminist organizations still often the abolitionist perspective I mentioned. This is because women are far more impacted by the sex trade and other organizations tend to have bad positions or no positions at all because they are ignorant. Let me know when other organizations have as developed of a political like on this, as I know of none other than ruling communist parties that were influenced by the women within them.
This is not an argument against sex work, this is an argument against all work under capitalism. Fair play, but not what we are discussing here.
If you want to make an argument against sex work you need to provide a justification for selecting it specifically over other work. I don’t think you have really done that other than to suggest imagining the toll sex work must take on an individual. Do you have any way to show that it is particularly harmful or any other reason why it should be singled out?
This is not an argument against sex work, this is an argument against all work under capitalism. Fair play, but not what we are discussing here.
I have, in fact, pointed out the core argument for the abolition of sex work made by leftist feminist organizations.
If you want to make an argument against sex work you need to provide a justification for selecting it specifically over other work.
I already did. I made a comparison that you’ve avoided thinking about. You declared it an invalid comparison based on absolutely nothing, but it isn’t.
I don’t think you have really done that other than to suggest imagining the toll sex work must take on an individual.
Who said I was imagining? You seem to be taking a lot of liberty with my thoughts.
Do you have any way to show that it is particularly harmful or any other reason why it should be singled out?
I already did and already pointed out the trafficking aspect. You seem to be interested in avoiding what I’ve laid out. Perhaps you should do some self-criticism as to why you are uninterested in approaching this in good faith.
I didn’t mean to misrepresent what you were saying so I’m sorry that I have. When I said you suggested imagining the difference I was referring to the statement you made asking me if I thought sex work was uniquely harmful compared to other work. I interpreted that as you asking me to imagine what harm a sex worker might experience. Are you able to clarify that? It seemed to be the core of your argument from what I could tell.
The issue I have with your last argument which I articulated is that it does not apply to sex work, but all work. Should we abolish all work given your reasoning or is there a specific reason why sex work should be targeted? Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see it in your argument about work under capitalism amounting to forced labour. If it applies to all work, I don’t see it being a useful argument for the abolition of sex work.
The trafficking aspect is not an issue with legalisation of sex work. It exists whether sex work is legal or not. To me this is akin to saying people are trafficked for slave labour therefore we should abolish labour. Unless I am missing something, it doesn’t seem follow.
What exactly are the consequences relating to becoming a mother?
Is more about her reputation. Would you want to be the child of I dunno that famous redhead amourant (I probably misspelled that) going to school? And what about her neighbours, the families of the kids knowing that kid is the child of a online sex worker basically. There’s a huge black stamp on it.
I guess pornstars have it worse though.
There is only one appropriate answer to this
I’m the first one to believe that money can buy happiness but still, giving that crap start and potential bullying material to your kids is… Kinda I dunno, unfortunate?
Nah I think it was a hilarious answer and the only correct one. Because this is not anyones bussiness.
It always becomes everyone’s business regardless. Unless I dunno you live like a savage in the jungle
That heavily depends on where you live though. The best answer to people objecting to that kind of work is the payroll. If you can support your family with whatever you’re doing it’s none of my business.
that you won’t know who is the father
Not how OF works. You can upload only solo videos if you want or work with one person if you want.
yeah, that makes sense.
That’s so not how onlyfans nor deciding to become a mother works, I don’t even know how to respond to this
What does this even mean?
People are so damn shallow about looks, it’s ridiculous.
The fact is that an AIO has a shorter lifespan, is way more expensive per-watt, and… Oh, right.
Sex work is work, and the people doing it deserve respect. Fuck the ‘there will be consequences’ mindset, since that mostly comes from the people imposing the ‘consequences’ in the first place.
I wouldn’t be willing/able to suspend disbelief about an actual personal connection either, but it’s a valid human emotional need, and if it works for people, good for them.
You might say fuck that, but in reality, there’s a fair chance future kids will have their mates seeing their mother in all sorts of graphic situations. They will see it themselves. That is a reality and I would never say ‘fuck that’ to my kids seeing their mother like that.
If I’m committing to a system, I only want fans. Lowest levels of maintenance ever
There was an article last week about the hired writers who do the messaging with customers. Was kind of interesting.
You’re aware there’s not just women on OnlyFans, right? As long as anyone doing it is enjoying it and not hurting anyone. I don’t see a problem.
I don’t pay for any OnlyFans, but I suppose if people are getting something out of it, and not being taken advantage of, there shouldn’t be a problem.
Cmon dude, OF is synonym with online sex work by now. Is a big chunk of the place.
Is it? I assumed it was some portion of it, but didn’t know to what extent. I was just speaking from the couple times I’ve seen things on there.
OnlyFans is just one step below prostitution. They will vanish overnight when sex work is legal.
If anything, get an actual sex worker in person. Settling for OnlyFans is ridiculous when there are literal TBs of porn out there. In person may be therapeutic for you as well. At the same time, invest in yourself. Workout, go to school and read actual books. Be someone worth being with.
Or…… still be on OnlyFans in 5 years sending some stranger your money while they love and fuck someone else. Up to you. I really don’t care.
OnlyFans is just one step below prostitution. They will vanish overnight when sex work is legal.
This is absolutely not true, and is absolutely dripping with sexism.
Settling for OnlyFans is ridiculous when there are literal TBs of porn out there.
People aren’t paying for porn. They’re paying for parasocial relationships.
I never mentioned sex or gender in anyway but you perceive whatever you like.
Yes I know they’re paying for parasocial sexual relationships and when real life encounters are possible this online bs will disappear. But great job trying to undermine my comment and advice. This was a ask lemmy post seeking opinions, not your opinion of my opinion
According to you, if they weren’t getting naked and performing in a sexual manner, people would pay for that parasocial relationship. Lol ok
There was a study which showed the only super fans were friends or family. Fucking gross.
I think you mean parasitic relationships.
If you don’t know what a parasocial relationship is, you can always look it up.
A loooot of my friends have one. I support them as long as they are happy doing it. It’s often their only semi stable income source since the majority are gig freelancers. I personally don’t subscribe to any because I don’t have much use for it (I’m basically ace, f), but I’m glad it works for them. It’s also one of the less risky forms of sex work.
The only thing I’m not too happy about is the amount of spam it is causing.
Fuck anyone that uses bots to advertise their crap from OF to every godforsaken platform; Other than that i don’t care what others do.
Mostly I’m onboard with what you’re saying here. Although, like others have said, don’t forget there’s plenty of people on OF who aren’t women! If there is any problem at all, why isn’t it also a problem for them? Second, I definitely wonder how many of the opinions in this thread are coming from other women who’ve done sex work. Those are mostly the only people I wanna hear from on this topic.
As far as the “fakeness” not working for you personally, I might have some good news for you. While of course capitalism does tend to suck all of the joy out of everything, like all professions, there are sex workers who definitely do enjoy their work. At least as much as anyone can feasibly enjoy working under capitalism anyway.
If they are doing it of their own free will, and it’s their decision, I see no problem with it.
Just see how many people it’s having kids nowadays, the effect on women/men of objectivifing their bodies at exchange for money I believe will have insane repercussions in the future society.
It’s not all about the blue page but about modern day capitalism and the pushing of rampant individualism.
The media sell OF as a way of empowerment but it isn’t anything else than a business of objectivifing themselves for money.
I believe social media validation addiction will be a very big concern in the future.
Weird sentiments in this thread. Everyone should do as they please and make money in any way they want. BTW there are also a lot of dudes on OF. But that’s just ‘boys being boys’ I guess🤷
