Please use the correct words. Murder is when a human being kills another human being. You cannot murder an animal. Animals are slaughtered, not murdered.
Other than that, I agree with you even though I’m not vegan.
Hopefully, you do also understand then that this distinction between “murder” and “slaughter” exists, because people wanted to apply different moral standards to it. Since we vegans disagree with having those different standards, we also disagree with what’s the correct word.
Yes I understand why vegans use the word murder, so that they get a strong emotional reaction to something they consider abhorrent. And I get it. But I think precision in language is important, and I think using that kind of language actually pushes people away from a better understanding of what veganism is all about. Although it shows how passionate vegans are, it can push people away with what some might consider vitriolic hyperbole.
That fact that a mod removed my post about the dictionary definition of an english word kinda illustrates my point. Despite my calm, clear, and nonconfrontational language, I expect this post to get removed as well.
I do agree that this harsh language can push people away. I rarely use it myself for that reason. But whether to use it or not, is their personal decision.
As for your dictionary definition comment, I am absolutely on board with it being removed. It was extremely tone-deaf.
You do not need to answer me, but ask yourself the following: Did you really think, they were not aware of the dictionary definition?
They were purposefully using a non-standard word. You could have argued their decision to use that word, if you really felt that strongly about it, although frankly, just don’t do that either. They’ve almost certainly thought about this more than you have, and there’s also just no need to discuss something like that all the time.
The way I interpreted your comment is that you personally felt uncomfortable with their use of language, so you felt an urge to react to it in any way whatsoever. Absolutely understandable.
But that is precisely what this whole post is about. People, who eat meat, will feel uncomfortable with the discussions we have here and then they respond to argue things that really do not need arguing.
Like, if you notice a factual mistake in a post, I welcome you to correct that. Intentional different usage of language is not a mistake, though.
I understand your viewpoint and I would offer you mine (I did not comment out of discomfort) but based on the mod activity in this post I don’t think it would be well received. It seems this is a community by vegans for vegans only, and other viewpoints, even non-antagonistic ones, are not welcome. Nothing wrong with that, but it means I will show myself the door rather than irritate the community members.
I can’t speak for the people that made the community but I don’t think that places like this are necessarily made by vegans for vegans as you describe. Personally I can attest that it’s just extremely frustrating to be made to feel like an out group in the ONE community where you shouldn’t be made to feel like that. I personally welcome nonvegans to participate in discussion so long as they come with the understanding that they are a guest in our community and should respect the community as such which does include taking care to not come across as tone deaf. I’m not religious and in fact actively oppose religion but if I found myself at a church for whatever reason I’m not going to go in there and start a bunch of arguments and whatnot. I would be respectful because I understand that going to their place of worship and causing a commotion is uncalled for and doesn’t benefit anyone. To be clear, I’m not trying to say that veganism is a religion because it is not and it is not viewed in the same way as religion is by its followers. I am merely using the analogy to illustrate how you should act when going into a community that you are not a part of.
Gee I wonder why telling 90% of the planet that they’re wrong and stupid and you are morally Superior doesn’t Garner more support? Clearly it’s not the condesending messaging.
This isn’t a popularity contest or a fad. If you understand the moral problem, it doesn’t matter what percentage of the people think that it’s not wrong.
Or hear me out you can be aware that we are animals continuing the natural process of calorie and resource reopropration. Most people would think a horse is a vegetarian until they watch it go chick hunting. Animals have the capacity to be sentient but not sapient by most definitions. I think we should look to stop factory farming and move back to more natural methods and cull the animals responsibly. I eat a balenced diet and do eat less meat than most. I want better higher quality meats. I’d be willing to hop on board to lab grown or imitation meats if they are comparable so far I’m not impressed. It is better every time but we are not there yet, if you want people to stop eating animals put your funding there. You can work with us or against us but remember you are the minority. So would you take the line of an absolutionist or work on common ground to make it so there is less suffering. The best steak I’ve ever had came from a cow raised free to roam the countryside locally slaughtered then served. You find a way to reproduce that and nobody will ever want a shit cheeseburger again.
I think you are confused. I am choosing taste. I value my pallet over the animals because they are animals. Call it selfish if you like I won’t deny it. So again you don’t have any arguments to sway me, I am not suffering from cognitive dissonance. Your options are to work with the system to promote change from within in a positive direction that makes the animals welfare improve or ignore the system. The system will continue if you ignore it Until you can reconcile that fact, there is no discussion that can be had.
Vegans do have the moral high ground simply by not murdering animals for food.
There is absolutely no reason to take your feelings of persecution seriously, if you’re locked in on the idea that you’re morally superior to anyone who isn’t a vegan. Identical vibes to an Evangelical Christian that ends arguements that go nowhere with I’ll pray for you.
Your attitude expressed here is the exact reason for that which you complain about.
Vegans do have the moral high ground simply by not murdering animals for food.
Please use the correct words. Murder is when a human being kills another human being. You cannot murder an animal. Animals are slaughtered, not murdered.
Other than that, I agree with you even though I’m not vegan.
Hopefully, you do also understand then that this distinction between “murder” and “slaughter” exists, because people wanted to apply different moral standards to it. Since we vegans disagree with having those different standards, we also disagree with what’s the correct word.
Yes I understand why vegans use the word murder, so that they get a strong emotional reaction to something they consider abhorrent. And I get it. But I think precision in language is important, and I think using that kind of language actually pushes people away from a better understanding of what veganism is all about. Although it shows how passionate vegans are, it can push people away with what some might consider vitriolic hyperbole.
That fact that a mod removed my post about the dictionary definition of an english word kinda illustrates my point. Despite my calm, clear, and nonconfrontational language, I expect this post to get removed as well.
I do agree that this harsh language can push people away. I rarely use it myself for that reason. But whether to use it or not, is their personal decision.
As for your dictionary definition comment, I am absolutely on board with it being removed. It was extremely tone-deaf.
You do not need to answer me, but ask yourself the following: Did you really think, they were not aware of the dictionary definition?
They were purposefully using a non-standard word. You could have argued their decision to use that word, if you really felt that strongly about it, although frankly, just don’t do that either. They’ve almost certainly thought about this more than you have, and there’s also just no need to discuss something like that all the time.
The way I interpreted your comment is that you personally felt uncomfortable with their use of language, so you felt an urge to react to it in any way whatsoever. Absolutely understandable.
But that is precisely what this whole post is about. People, who eat meat, will feel uncomfortable with the discussions we have here and then they respond to argue things that really do not need arguing.
Like, if you notice a factual mistake in a post, I welcome you to correct that. Intentional different usage of language is not a mistake, though.
I understand your viewpoint and I would offer you mine (I did not comment out of discomfort) but based on the mod activity in this post I don’t think it would be well received. It seems this is a community by vegans for vegans only, and other viewpoints, even non-antagonistic ones, are not welcome. Nothing wrong with that, but it means I will show myself the door rather than irritate the community members.
I can’t speak for the people that made the community but I don’t think that places like this are necessarily made by vegans for vegans as you describe. Personally I can attest that it’s just extremely frustrating to be made to feel like an out group in the ONE community where you shouldn’t be made to feel like that. I personally welcome nonvegans to participate in discussion so long as they come with the understanding that they are a guest in our community and should respect the community as such which does include taking care to not come across as tone deaf. I’m not religious and in fact actively oppose religion but if I found myself at a church for whatever reason I’m not going to go in there and start a bunch of arguments and whatnot. I would be respectful because I understand that going to their place of worship and causing a commotion is uncalled for and doesn’t benefit anyone. To be clear, I’m not trying to say that veganism is a religion because it is not and it is not viewed in the same way as religion is by its followers. I am merely using the analogy to illustrate how you should act when going into a community that you are not a part of.
Politeness is often used as a mask for horrible ideas and actions.
Gee I wonder why telling 90% of the planet that they’re wrong and stupid and you are morally Superior doesn’t Garner more support? Clearly it’s not the condesending messaging.
This isn’t a popularity contest or a fad. If you understand the moral problem, it doesn’t matter what percentage of the people think that it’s not wrong.
Or hear me out you can be aware that we are animals continuing the natural process of calorie and resource reopropration. Most people would think a horse is a vegetarian until they watch it go chick hunting. Animals have the capacity to be sentient but not sapient by most definitions. I think we should look to stop factory farming and move back to more natural methods and cull the animals responsibly. I eat a balenced diet and do eat less meat than most. I want better higher quality meats. I’d be willing to hop on board to lab grown or imitation meats if they are comparable so far I’m not impressed. It is better every time but we are not there yet, if you want people to stop eating animals put your funding there. You can work with us or against us but remember you are the minority. So would you take the line of an absolutionist or work on common ground to make it so there is less suffering. The best steak I’ve ever had came from a cow raised free to roam the countryside locally slaughtered then served. You find a way to reproduce that and nobody will ever want a shit cheeseburger again.
You don’t have to. You choose to for a bunch of feelings and “identities” which have nothing to do with “caloric appropriation”.
I think you are confused. I am choosing taste. I value my pallet over the animals because they are animals. Call it selfish if you like I won’t deny it. So again you don’t have any arguments to sway me, I am not suffering from cognitive dissonance. Your options are to work with the system to promote change from within in a positive direction that makes the animals welfare improve or ignore the system. The system will continue if you ignore it Until you can reconcile that fact, there is no discussion that can be had.
Why would I try to sway a selfish sociopath with arguments?
Your claims to being open for discussion go out the window the moment you put your taste experience before the lives of “animals”.
They are all of those things. Meat is murder. Dairy is rape and murder.
I can’t go vegan because of the vegans 🙄
There is absolutely no reason to take your feelings of persecution seriously, if you’re locked in on the idea that you’re morally superior to anyone who isn’t a vegan. Identical vibes to an Evangelical Christian that ends arguements that go nowhere with I’ll pray for you.
Your attitude expressed here is the exact reason for that which you complain about.