Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.
I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we’d sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual. I thought she’s just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: “I’d be very worried and look for you everywhere”, “I’d sue the city”, “I’d tell your mother exactly what happened and say I’m sorry”, and “I’d kill the guy who kidnapped you”.
She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like “if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?” But at this point, I think she’s finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I’m sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?
Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.
if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?”
So…this makes no sense. If I had to guess, I’d imagine your girlfriend exhibits this kind of strange obsessive behavior inconsistently, has occasional bouts of depression, and is no older than 30. Regardless of whether I’m right (but especially if I am), you should consider whether your girlfriend is suffering from something that requires a psych evaluation and get her one.
That’s legitimately not gaslighting.
And gaslighting is 100% real thing, but I always think of this Rick and Morty clip now when someone brings it up:
To answer your specific question, in this example, no she’s not gaslighting you. Gaslighting is a special form of lying intent on having you doubting your own reason, judgement, and even memory, in favor of someone else’s.
In this case, it sounds like she’s afraid of her own neighborhood, and is depending on you to make her feel safe. Were I in your position, I would talk to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
No, this is abuse. Being scared of where you live doesn’t justify abusing your partner. Missing someone’s text doesn’t justify this kind of behaviour. The silent treatment is abusive and not the way mature adults communicate with their partners. The fact that he calls the attention seeking follow up “the usual” also shows the extent of the problem, especially when it’s pretty clear she expects him to provide the “correct” response. This post has so many red flags I thought it was a communist party parade.
Sure all of that is true. But also outside the scope of the direct question.
It’s a response to your second paragraph which is “she’s not gaslighting you and you should reward her abusive behaviour by moving to a nicer neighborhood”.
“She not gaslighting” was the first paragraph.
Looking back I don’t see anything I wrote, that says they should move, or anything about abuse at all.
My second paragraph recommended a conversation. One which I’m sure would illuminate more of her thoughts; Possibly exposing inconsistencies in her logic, if she is genuinely being manipulative and abusive.
Or possibly we’re both wrong, and reading things that aren’t actually written. You’ve certainly proven a tendency for that with what I’ve written.
Looking back I don’t see anything I wrote, that says they should move
This you?
I would talk to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
Gaslighting me in a thread about gaslighting… Brilliant
That is me. Numerous people have called me “The most literal person I know”.
I wrote only exactly what I meant.
I would TALK to her about looking for someplace to live she does feel safe.
And literally… Advocating Talking about something, is not advocating Doing that thing.
she begin asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
Yeah these sound like tests.
You might want to X-post to c/relationshipadvice as well. That being said, the only one responsible for kidnapping anyone is the kidnappers. And no one should expect their friends or lover to kill their kidnappers. It would likely get you killed in the attempt. On top of this, these are all hypotheticals.
Someone who is using hypotheticals that they made up in their head against you is more worried about themselves than you.
It is not my place, but this person sounds like someone I wouldn’t even want to be friends with, let alone date. Friends are there to build each other up, not tear them down and add anxiety.
If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
and expecting your partner to kill for you.
Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical
And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.
There’s just too much context and subtlies that we can’t know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.
Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.
Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.
Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?
Ok, status quo.
Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?
Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.
This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner’s part.
Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.
and that’s missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn’t leave a business card behind, so he wouldn’t have clue who to kill 😂
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?
You’re probably better off trusting your guts, and the guts of people around you, than what anyone in the internet says about this matter. Including me.
That said: I don’t think that she’s either gaslighting or guilt tripping you. I think that she’s simply feeling insecure.
My ex-wife would do very much the same thing and more and she was abusive as fuck. If this kind of thing is typical, it’s a big red flag.
Her standing by your bed and behaving like that is childish and she’s demonstrating manipulative behaviour.
Not gaslighting, and from what you seem to describe, doesn’t appear to be manipulative either. She just seems to be angry. Not to say that you can’t be both angry and manipulative, but I don’t see clear intent for her to try to guilt trip or gaslight you.
Gaslighting would be if she lied and said that she sent you a message when in fact she didn’t. i.e., lying with the intent to make you question your judgment and perception
Guilt tripping would be if she pressured you into giving her a gift as compensation for ignoring her message. i.e., taking advantage of someone’s feelings of guilt to get them to do something for you.
I don’t see any lie, and I don’t see hee trying to extract anything out of you. Worst case interpretation, she’s being a bit petty. Best case interpretation, she’s scared of being alone outside.
I noticed your final paragraph, and I would be cautious in general about saying that someone who’s trying to convince you that their anger is justified is automatically manipulative. That’s kind of just how anger works. People think that their anger is justified. Otherwise they wouldn’t be angry. Manipulation occurs when you start to feel like you are being used for their own motives.
Either way, you should probably talk to her about it. It seems like she thinks the issue is more severe than you appear to think, and that is something that should be discussed with her
Standing by your bed while you’re asleep and berating you isn’t manipulative?
Nah, to needs to leave, now. No sense hanging around to see what this escalates to. Not worth putting in the effort for someone who’s demonstrated they need to grow up.
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture.
This is absolutely manipulative.
Yeah this is manipulative as hell he needs to run like hell. Today. Not tomorrow.
What about being overly dramatic in the comments section about someone else’s minor spat with his girlfriend. Is that manipulative?
It’s definitively manipulative, but people on the internet like to take something like that and then sprint to the conclusion that the person exhibiting the behavior is entirely knowledgeable about what they’re doing and is nefariously doing it on purpose in order to control the person and keep them locked in a position of weakness.
A lot of people exhibit behavior like this because they feel scared or upset and don’t know how to healthily express or resolve it, or were taught by unhealthy homelife that the behavior is normal, even if it’s not. I think people in the comments immediately rushing to leave her and anyone like her behind will either find it hard to maintain a relationship, or should count their lucky stars if they’re with someone that is completely healthy and knowledgeable about negative human behaviors and willing (and able) to fix it.
Are you the gf? Do you know if they did? Or will?
Or are you just assuming?
Or are you suggesting that I’m being over dramatic? Cuz, she woke him up in the middle of sleeping at night. Sleep deprivation is absolutely a form of torture, and while it’s probably not sleep deprivation (yet) it’s absolutely manipulative as fucking hell.
I can’t know if OP is exaggerating or not, or if they’re going to or not. Yes that’s an assumption on my part.
As related, though, the behaviors described are heavily manipulative.
As related: she decided unilaterally when to have that conversation. And she decided to do it when OP was near-comatose in sleep. An altered state that being roused from does not contribute to reasonable conversation.
Walking away is fine, but it could have (and should have,) waited until the morning.
Now look at what she’s saying is the problem- he missed a text, but also wasn’t waiting to escort her downstairs. Ultimately- if this is legitimate on her part it’s “you don’t care about me”.
Now look at the fears she is expressing- that it’s literally unsafe to get dropped at the curb and walk in. While it’s certainly possible, the reality is that if it’s that unsafe, then asking what he’d do- and she jumps straight to killing?!
And the CCTV stuff- which OP has no realistic way of knowing or resolving.
Yeah; no. All of this is meant to put OP on the defensive, in a state that OP is not able to think clearly. As relayed it’s straight up manipulation, and if the most vile sort.
Maybe he should file a police report for the torture.
or maybe you could understand why it’s a form of torture and understand what I’m trying to say.
Hint: because it put somebody into a vulnerable, easily manipulated state. whether she knew it or not, she was taking advantage of that vulnerable state. she brushed off prior attempts to talk it out, which is fine. But she doesn’t get to unilaterally expect that conversation on her timetable. He gets to say ‘no, I’m not in a place to talk about this,’ too.
Your girlfriend is an immature child and manipulative.
You can’t make somebody like that happy. It won’t get better either. You can try reason with her but maturity issue will prevent her from out growing it.
She will need a few more boyfriends if she is ever to to learn why this clown behavior is no good.
My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her
Of course not.
The kidnapper is responsible. Maybe an instigator, too.
But not random persons who could maybe have done random things differently.
My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex?
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinkg her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facillitating bad person for missing a few texts?
She is trying to guilt trip you for missing her text by using emotionally ever the top hyperbole which is not gaslighting. Gaslighting requires intentionally lying about something that did not happen to make you question your own experience.
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
Reading this I’m not sure I’d fault him even if that were the case.
Still rampant manipulation, though.
I’d say at least on the level of gaslighting
Gaslighting is not a level, just a different technique. It can be done at varying levels of severity.
The bitch is crazy, get rid of her asap
I’ll leave the psychological analysis to others but when I’m in a text discussion that needs synchronization (e.g. pick someone up at the train station), I usually respond to incoming texts as soon as I see them, e.g. with “ok”, unless I’m driving and the person is expecting me. Even if I’m driving, I’ll hear the incoming text buzz the phone, so if I think it needs immediate attention I’ll pull over and look at it. So lack of such a text response within a few minutes could indicate “follow up with a voice call”.
