Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has issued a dire warning to her party about the chaos that could ensue if they succeed in pushing President Joe Biden off the ticket. And she criticized Democrats who’ve given off-the-record quotes that suggest the party has resigned itself to a second Trump term.
In an Instagram Live video on Thursday, Ocasio-Cortez warned liberals that a brokered convention could lead to chaos, in part because she says some of the Democratic “elites” who want Biden out also don’t want Vice President Kamala Harris as the nominee in his place.
“If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee,” she said.
Ocasio-Cortez claimed none of the people she’s spoken with who are calling on Biden to drop out — including lawmakers and legal experts — have articulated a plan to swap out the nominee without minimizing the serious legal and procedural challenges that are likely to ensue.
Ocasio-Cortez also highlighted the racial, ethnic and class divisions that appear to have formed between the majority of those pining to blow up the ticket — led mostly by white Democrats and media pundits — and those elected officials who feel they and their constituents have too much at stake to upend the process at this point and so are willing to do the work to re-elect Biden-Harris. She alluded to this cultural divide in her video when she spoke out against anonymous sources expressing a sense of fatalism on behalf of Democrats about what might happen if Biden remains on the ticket:
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don’t care what name is on there. We are not losing. I don’t know about you, but my community does not have the option to lose. My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July of an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They’re the first ones put in Rikers. They’re the first ones whose families are killed by war.
We did it! You are welcome America!
This is the most I have ever felt that we as demographic have been heard and acknowledged. Strategically placing ourselves in swing states was a smart long term strategy :D The bananas have brought you O’ monkey!
I’m willing to admit that I also wanted this situation sorted out and handled before now with someone energetic and capable of getting people excited to vote. I’ve since decided that this is a problem for the Democratic party to handle, not me. Their candidate could be Minnesota’s very own dog mayor for all I fucking care.
This is a good fucking take, have to say. She very obviously knows what she’s talking about extremely well, has the best interests of those she represents at heart, and knows how to express it all clearly for the average layperson. You don’t get a lot of politicians of that caliber.
No wonder the Republicans hate her so much!
I like AOC, but do you really think she has her constituents best interest at heart if trump is leading the polls?
How does that logic make any fucking sense?
Trump is beating Biden by a wide margin at this point. So pushing for Biden is likely leading to a Trump win
This usually happens after the respective party conference every four years.
Polling is also massively inaccurate as everyone younger than 45 mutes/blocks phone calls from these people.
Polls were historically accurate in 2022.
But I know the facts don’t matter, only the narrative that you bought.
I think most of these polls came out of the debate.
And unfortunately, the discrepancy between polling and election results has had a tendency to skew in republican favor. But its not like weve got any say in biden staying in or not at this point, lets see how the polls look after the democrat convention.
i don’t think pushing for Biden is leading to a Trump win, because i don’t see many people pushing for Biden. i see a lot of people (social media, talking heads, news outlets) complaining about Biden.
if Dems and progressives want to defeat Trump, well, you coulda fooled me because that’s not what their behavior accomplishes. it looks like a great many are weakening and undermining our current path to success. right now, with no compelling alternative, that means a Trump win.
as far as i can tell, we can support Biden or continue to shoot at our own feet in a panic which only makes the opposition stronger.
i don’t think pushing for Biden is leading to a Trump win, because i don’t see many people pushing for Biden.
this is…incoherent. I dont think fire is hot because I dont see many people sticking their hands into fire
let me try this another way. i don’t agree with the statement that a is currently causing b, because i don’t see a happening. b has some other cause.
How are we having this conversation if no one is supporting Biden?
There’s a fun thing that happens when people are deep in rabbit holes. They get led to insane conclusions by a breadcrumb of bullshit, usually starting out with a semi reasonable premise.
But then sometimes when they pop out of their rabbit hole they just jump straight from A to X, without explaining the chain of bullshit that led them down to X.
It’s why Trump and other MAGAs say shit that is insane, not like as a metaphor but like stuff that has zero connection to reality, regardless of what politics you believe in. You just haven’t followed their path of increasingly absurd propositions, but they followed it because each new proposition was only slightly more out there than the last.
In this case, I suspect there was something like
(A) Trump is leading polls --> (B) Biden cannot beat trump --> (C) we need to replace Biden --> (D) replacing Biden is the best thing to do for the nation --> (E) anyone who supports Biden is acting contrary to the best interests of the nation
By this logic, the more (A) is happening, the more (E) is correct. But he skipped B through D, so it’s more clear how absurd the conclusion is because you didn’t get the frog-in-boiling-water parade of misinformation and propaganda.
My conclusion is not insane, it’s practical. I was a 100% Biden supporter, defended him vehemently, you check my history here and in Kbin. He was my pick in 2012. Hell, I fucking cheered during the SOTU. My wife called him her grandpa.
And then I watched that disastrous debate. He clearly isn’t all there anymore. And my eyes opened entirely. I love what he’s done for our country. I love his cabinet. I follow politics probably more than 90% of most of you here and have for decades. Hell, I’ll likely run for some office someday.
Our guy’s mind is deluded. The tip of our spear has blunted. It’s time to take grandpas keys away before he wraps our family’s only car around a lightpole.
Being the president isn’t a televised debate, it’s a 3,000+ person job of leading the executive branch. Biden has a speech impediment, and the older you get the more difficult it is to hide those shortcomings.
He has done an amazing job considering the absolute catastrophe fuckface draft dodger left for him. Given the choice between old draft dodger bitch and old guy who loves his children and has a speech impediment, it’s not a difficult choice.
Sure, I get what you’re saying 100%, but it’s not me and 99% of the people on here that you need to convince.
I get it, and these people are the same reason we got Trump in the first place. They are willing to forgo voting for Biden because he is not the perfect candidate, or their candidate.
Instead we get “their” candidate which is abortion and porn banned, increased taxes for all of us, corpo tax breaks, and much less freedom. But they will turn around and say “it’s not my fault, democrats should have ran someone else to make me happy to vote”.
People lack the ability to be adults about voting and vote against literal fascism.
Bullshit. If you actually loved Biden’s cabinet and his team, and if you actually believed that his cognitive ability was in decline, you’d tell us to vote for him and then have him step aside AFTER the election, so the EXTREMELY WELL-ESTABLISHED PROCESS of taking over from an incapacitated POTUS can begin.
I’ll vote for his corpse, but I’m not sure Joe voter in Pennsylvania will.
Joe voter in Pennsylvania will absolutely not vote for “insert Dem here”.
Disrupting the Democratic campaign is a right wing strategem.
Ah, yes, you were with him up UNTIL the debate. Would’ve been more believable if you said genocide instead, lol. Totally believable, not a flagrant lie at all. How does this argument even have to do with what you originally said?
I’ll be 100% honest with you here. My feelings on the Jewish / Palestine conflict are very mixed.
If you care about the Palestinians because you disapprove of war and genocide, the I think you should also understand that Hamas made their bed when they murdered and raped Jews at the start of the conflict. And believe me, I know the cassus belli for this have been there for even before my parents were born. I also am aware that most of you will downvote my opinion on this matter. That’s your right, but the world is indeed nuanced.
If you care what’s happening there, you should also care about what’s happening in Ukraine, Darfur, with the Rohingya, the Congo, Yemen, the Uyghurs and the First Nations in America, and likely more that I don’t even know about.
But the way through those is to ensure we have a strong state department. You know who would tear down the state department like he did in his first term?
Hamas did not rape any Jews on 7oct. In fact the UN and recent HRW report stated there is no evidence of any rape on 7oct
You are confusing Hamas with israel who mass rapes Palestinians through history.
Again, what does any of this have to do with your original statement. You’re all over the place.
Mad props for trying to explain the mental gymnastics.
It’s amazing that you seem to think she has a direct influence on how trump and biden are polling.
I can’t understand the people who dislike her. My sisters don’t like her either and think she’s “dumb” but every time she speaks, she makes what seems to me to be well thought out, rational arguments.
The dumb person is your sister.
Because she’s actually left and they know it. Most Democrats are centered left or even right.
I see a lot of people who hate her for not being left enough. Whilst I sympathise with that stance to an extent, from the perspective of someone in the UK, the US seems so shockingly right wing that I’m surprised that a figure like Ocasio-Cortez exists at all. That is to say that I wish America had more left wing politicians, but given the current lack, AOC is a refreshing presence.
Supporting Genocide is never left. She is a centrist.
Do you ever get tired of huffing your own farts?
Does defending Genocide ever get tiring?
Because they’re gobbling up the mainstream media narrative that labels both progressives, and women who are politicians, as irrational and naive. AOC is both of those things and gets the whole venn diagram of bullshit thrown at her.
Yes, even women can internalize misogyny. You only have to go as far as your local fundie churches to hear women saying FeMaLEs are too emotional to be president or that women should be subservient to their husbands because women just no brain good compared to men.
I wouldn’t say I dislike her, but I don’t like the AOC worship here.
Yes, she voices what we’re all thinking. She elevates our voice.
The problem is that she’s also unrealistic in expectations, and that can cause a rift. I wouldn’t say her comments cause a rift in the party itself, but among voters.
For example, she was all in on the expanding the SCOTUS bandwagon. Functionally, it’s untenable. Any politician should know that. There’s some loophole that would allow you to do it with simple majorities in house and senate, but that loophole is sketchy and likely won’t work out. And if it does, that opens Pandora box to completely railroad this country next time Reps get simple majorities in both houses. Which may be half a year away.
But it seems like a brilliant workaround on the surface. And people who bought into that pipe dream became extremely disruptive, causing fights amongst blue voters.
And this isn’t the only time. She’s a consistent voice of the Progressives. Which is fine. Idealist should have a voice. But I would prefer it if her and Bernie would also include pragmatic expectations with their ideas in a way that doesn’t put their more moderate colleagues on blast for no reason.
To give it a real world hypothetical we can all probably relate to. I’m a programmer, so I’ll put it in those terms, but this applies to pretty much any job one way or another.
Let’s say you’re maintaining a code base that has a lot of problems. Maintaining it is a nightmare. Ask an experienced engineer, I have identified a number of solutions of varying effort and effectiveness.
The best solutions would require giant re-writes and would require parallel effort from other teams to support our effort. Risk is large
The next best requires extensive refactoring of our teams code base, but can be done in isolation from other teams for the most part. Risk is still large because we’re going to need to swap out major parts of our internal infrastructure, but no impact to other teams.
And then there’s the shortest path. Fix problems as they come up, make small refactors as you can to help relieve some headaches. Let’s you move fast and not be disruptive, but the underlying problems stay around. Smallest risk.
Now, having brought these to the table, management chooses the least risky option because they can’t or won’t commit to larger scale efforts because of other priorities.
Do I talk shit, be extremely negative, try to get other non-management colleagues to join my outcry for the “right” solution? I could. I have. But if I do, I’m putting my employment / influence at risk. And sometimes it’s more appropriate to just keep the ideal solution on the backburner, do what’s immediately effective, and bring the best solution to the table at a better time.
To me, AOC and Bernie are those coworkers that won’t shut up about the “perfect” solution. And maybe even attack their colleagues for not supporting them in their pursuit of perfect when they’re just trying to tread water and get the easier wins to the finish line.
Damn straight! Us software developers know better because we’re expected to learn any domain. Obviously the government works a lot like software and that makes me a theoretically political scientist.
Fuckin tech bros are worse than doctors and the “as a mom” people
And what specific points do you disagree with.
Great job ignoring the point.
Wisdom is choosing when to pick a fight. AOC is intelligent, but not very wise.
She’s very popular with the progressive crowd who want to hear their problems and solutions echoed by a prominent politician. But she’s also tact-less. Stirring up shit that has zero chance of becoming reality.
And again, I think it can lead to healthy discussion of what things could be like. If we had a possible super majority and could really reform the government. If it were phrased as such, I wouldn’t have any problem.
But in practice, I find her antics to be more screaming into the wind than being productive. And it has only served to weaponize the “leftists” against the party to the point we’re losing votes and not gaining anything.
You make a lot of claims and generalize from there, but I am not sure what specifics you are talking about. In the specific case of Kamala, it seems she was right and got here way (breaking news). So really, your point (which I am not sure if it goes beyond personal attacks) is rendered moot.
If she’s “unrealistic” it’s only because you’re comparing her to the bulk of Congress, who would prefer to do fuck-all except collect corporate money and act as milquetoast as possible.
It’s annoying that she put this on Instagram where there’s no scrobble function, and she then spends so much time leading up to it.
For those not willing to sit around listening to off-the-cuff meandering, AOC’s points:
- Ohio requires political parties to submit their candidates’ names before the Democratic convention. If the convention is contested, Democrats likely won’t be able to vote there effectively.
- AOC says that swing states might have enough legal ambiguity in the electoral code that Republicans can challenge any voting results, and then let it escalate to the Supreme Court who can throw out the Democratic result.
- Democrats are divided on who would be the replacement candidate, with many of the people calling for Biden to step down opposing Harris as well.
- The Biden/Harris campaign has $100M of campaign funding that will not be able to be transferred to another ticket. (Maybe it can be transferred to Harris? She mumbles a bit there).
- Anecdotally, when AOC sat “in rooms with those people” that call for Biden to step down, they didn’t seem to have a proposed game plan for any sort of replacement. This includes lawyers who ought to know whether this creates legal trouble and people in the legislature.
- There is a risk that if the Democratic convention is contested, it won’t be concluded before the deadline to submit the ticket in more states, which is two days after the scheduled end.
- There are no candidates that poll way better than Biden.
- Many mail-in votes can already be made in September or October. A new candidate would have to have a succesful campaign by that time.
- Biden is systematically underestimated (by Democrats and fianciers?) in his ability to rally ‘demographics typically not cared for’.
- Biden does great with elderly people, which may not transfer to other Democrats.
- Democrats opposing Biden seem to be mostly concerned about big donors, not popular support.
- Democratic party members speaking anonymously to the press is both strategically stupid and undemocratic. They should have either spoken out publicly or kept it behind closed doors. The fact that they did may be why Biden is polling so bad.
- Biden gets energized from having people around him, which was not the case for the debate with Trump.
My personal opinions:
- With regards to Ohio, betting websites put the Republicans at 95% chance of winning the state, and Biden appears to have been trailing by 10 percentage points even before the debate. Losing Ohio only matters if you would have won Ohio with Biden, and that’s questionable.
- With regards to the Supreme court handing the election to Trump based on a bullshit legal ruling, it seems like AOC is making the dangerous and questionable assumption that the Supreme Court cares about the law, and that the outcome of these legal challenges will depend on technicalities rather than on whether they think they can practically succeed at the coup.
- With regards to the $100M war chest, this seems to be cancelled out by her argument that Democrats opposing Trump are mostly concerned about donors. In 2020, Biden’s election got $1 billion in funding while on May 9th, Biden had raked in $170M according to this website. So with upwards of $700M of donations left to collect, a 14% decrease in donations would mean Biden has less money to work with than other candidates.
- With regards to other candidates not doing much better, it seems impressive that they are polling better than Biden even with Biden running a massive election campaign and having spent a hundred million dollars in ads already. I would expect the gap to widen if those other candidates actually start trying to win the election as much as Biden is.
- With regards to the votes in September and October, with regards to the elderly and demographics typically not cared for and popular support, these all seem to be cancelled out by the polls.
- With regards to the Democrat backchannels, the damage is done. It’s fair that she’s mad about it, but it doesn’t affect future decisions.
- With regards to Biden’s energy, either this doesn’t explain the Zelensky-Putin gaffe, or it’s kind of irrelevant. Biden won’t be sitting in the oval office with an audience to work off of.
So from everything AOC says, all that seems reasonable to me is (1) the observation that there is no good Democratic alternative plan, (2) the worry that the convention might run long so the alternative candidate can’t appear on the ticket, (3) the possibility that a succesful Republican coup is significantly more likely with a candidate that might provide loopholes for the Supreme Court to work off of than with Biden, and (4) the possibility of losing Ohio if Biden would otherwise have won it.
However, even here, the parts of the alternative plan she is most worried about seems to be the legal trouble, which she seems most worried about only if the Democrats aren’t on time with selecting a candidate. It seems to me that if only the Democrats are able to rally behind a new candidate before the Ohio deadline two days before the convention, none of her concerns apply more to the new candidate than to Biden. If it happens after the Ohio deadline, it only matters if there is a technicality that disqualifies the new candidate and Biden would otherwise have won Ohio and that technicality determines whether a coup succesfully occurs.
Is it not called “scrubbing”? Scrobble is music
Thanks for the synopsis.
In regards to a few of your points:
- There is a reason “generic democrat” polls better in general. It’s because they’re an unknown quantity. People assume they’ll be better. Most people are not tuned in and do not know who Whitmer, Newsom, etc. are. Give it like two weeks of negative ads on them calling them socialists, etc. and boom, the polls drop. I would fully expect the polls to shift for a new candidate but LOWER, not higher. It’s much easier to inspire fear in unknown candidates rather than known ones.
- Biden is a known quantity. He cannot be decried as a “socialist” or any other thing. People know him for better or worse and that’s that.
- Elderly? The most reliable voting block in the country? Ignore them at your own peril for an unknown.
AOC makes solid points and so I take a few things differently from you and say she is precisely right in her analysis. I think if the Dems switch then we get a Humphrey/Mondale mashup where the Democrats are absolutely trounced in the general.
The time for this crap was 2 years ago, not the past month. Democrats need to find a stiff upper lip and back Biden with all their might.
Too late. He dropped out.
Time to see who was right. Im damn positive it will be those who are cheering today who will be crying in November.
It’s going to be a hot mess, that’s for sure.
If you view it as a full screen reel and not a regular post in a feed then you should be able to select a time. Instagram is stupid.
She ain’t wrong.
AOC and Bernie are both saying this and I agree 110%. In all occasions. The most important thing is we all make a plan to go out and vote. Talk to other democrats and make sure they fight that demoralization and go out and vote. There is so much at stake with Project 2025 that I dont even care about these headlines anymore.
His health is declining fast and way too many people think he looks too old (both candidates are) and too mentally busted to last 4 more years. Let alone him even staying coherent another 6 months. He is 100% unable to coherently and quickly speak anymore and it’s not going to magically get better. The real issue is that they should have done something about it 4 months ago so a better candidate could have been picked and it could have looked like Bidens choice to no run for a second term.
I still think the best chance is to put in someone else, but it’s pretty much too late for them to get their shit together.
This whole issue is happening because he decided to try for a second term. That is the origin of this cluster fuck. Because he said he wasn’t going to.
He never said he wasn’t going to. A media outlet reported on rumors he’d only committed to one term and everyone took that as gospel. Turns out he sort of maybe signaled it one interview with Slate as a maybe, he never said he’d only do one term.
I’m beginning to think the play is for Joe to only last till the election because there’s no fucking way the country is going to learn about and be excited by one single person with the amount of time the completely incompetent DNC has left us with. If Joe decides he’s too banged up on day one, he can leave the office then.
Likely, but the problem is that people don’t want to vote for the guy that may have alzheimers, and Harris isn’t very liked. They needed to do something months ago. Either a different candidate or a shit ton of good PR for Harris.
Thank you. I’ve been saying this for years now and usually get downvoted for it, which makes me sad – not because I care about downvotes but because so many people seem not to understand that this is 1933 and we need to be all-in against fascism right now.
Biden just stepped down, so it’s even more important that we unite against the threat. I don’t care who’s on the Democrat ticket – whether it’s Kamala or anyone else, even Biden’s bitey dog – this isn’t the time to debate policy. We need to vote and convince everyone who isn’t a fascist to vote against this. If we don’t, they will kill us, and that’s not hyperbole.
Please vote.
Agreed. She also pointed out that early voting ballots go out in September. A new campaign would have an eight week runway if it started now.
“Trust me, it’ll be super bad (in non-specific ways) to swap out Biden. There are unspecified people pushing to replace Biden for unspecified bad-faith reasons. Just ignore the obvious problems with the candidate, stop saying critical things and get in line”
Super strategy, guys.
The post you’re responding to says no one is making good suggestions, just saying “give up and come up with a new last minute plan”. Awful advice. Just awful.
No one cares if you critique anyone. It’s not anyone’s job to take bad plans seriously.
Did you read the post?
Did you read the post?
They definitely did not.
Did you read it?
What I will say is what upsets me is [Democrats] saying we will lose.
She stated over and over again in the stream that people voicing concerns about Biden’s ability are weakening him, and followed her new recurring habit of failing to rebut any of those concerns.
You’re acting like we’re entering completely unknown waters if we switch candidates. The strategy is simply to get a new candidate, likely the other person already on the ticket, run a campaign and win. The fact that several alternatives are polling neck and neck with the two candidates without even campaigning is a testament to how weak both Biden and Trump are.
That’s just more words, not more substance. You’re doing here exactly what AOC is calling out: giving a vague description of the surface of what you think will happen in a best case scenario with no tactical or even strategic consideration for first mitigating the chaos the basic act will create.
The problem isn’t that you need to come up with the play by play, the problem is that no one has. It’s literally the worst kind of plan: no plan at all.
It’s about the dumbest possible move, really, and it’s telling that the only motivation behind it is that he’s old.
Throw out the incumbent advantage, throw out all current strategies months before the election, hand wave away the candidate slate as objectively better with minimal examination, expose us to huge legal vulnerability against the most litigious party I’ve ever seen, who currently seems to have captured the judicial branch, in the highest stakes election I’ve seen so far, and do it all without any inkling of a play by play to create unity and mitigate doubt or even a hint of an acknowledgment of the problems that the move would cause in the best case scenario?
Awful.
“Trust me, it’ll be super bad to replace Biden without a strategy, and nobody can agree on a strategy”
Much better to stick with the strategy of browbeating anyone who points out Biden is losing and only speaks in complete sentences about half the time.
That’s not a strategy.
I forgot to include “Run out the clock until it really is too late to replace Biden” and “Hope for a miracle in November.”
You’ve already proven that you haven’t read the article, so anything you say at this point can be dismissed.
Okay, I guess if I don’t read so good, someone as smart as you can point out to me the part where AOC articulated the strategy to win while keeping Biden on the ballot.
By calling out how there is no strategy behind the folks asking for him to step down. They have alluded to the fact that they don’t want Harris either. It’s a hard pill to swallow since it doesn’t fit your narrative, but you’re going to have to accept reality.
Pointing out those things isn’t a strategy either.
The strategy this entire time has plainly been for him to voluntarily step aside and endorse a replacement, probably Kamala.
“If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I’m here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee,” she said.
Maybe read the fucking article. They’re clearly aiming at having neither Biden nor Kamala as a choice.
I watched her stream, hence the reference to unspecific people for unspecific bad reasons. She vaguely alluded to chaos at the convention, which is highly unlikely if Biden endorses anyone.
Keep digging your head in the sand, then. Ain’t gonna waste my time.
We can only hope
Completely missed the point.
I’m sorry but she says enough here about the machinations of the donor-class that makes me think someone absolutely heinous is being lined up to take Biden’s place
The notion that they’re going to whisk some corporate plant out of a back room that nobody’s ever heard of isn’t realistic. The favorites for a replacement are all no less donor-friendly than Biden has been.
Source: “my ass”
Indeed, even my ass is capable of understanding the donors also don’t want to lose.
I don’t think that’s true. They know they don’t really have to compete in this election, and it shows. It’s the same mindset that was behind HRC16 and the Hillary campaign promoting Trump.
The notion that they’re going to whisk some corporate plant out of a back room that nobody’s ever heard of isn’t realistic.
There are corporate plants we have heard of, and I wouldn’t put it past the party to nominate Clinton again. Or Manchin.
As opposed to the strategy that’s been spammed here for months:
“Well clearly the Democrats are useless and are going to lose. It’s Weekend at Bernie’s out there except it isn’t even Bernie. The DNC has never done anything for the people and have decided to roll over for Trump. My friends and I are just not going to vote, that’ll give the party a wakeup call.”
Unification is about the only strategy that will win this. I will absolutely vote blue no matter who, but if anyone was serious about replacing Biden they would have had to unify behind another candidate weeks or months ago. “Maybe Newsom” is NOT A STRATEGY.
I was with you until not voting. I have very real concerns about Biden’s ability to even be on the campaign trail. The dude struggles through schedules interviews and appearances in ways that he clearly didn’t used to. It seems to me that they did everything possible to hide his present condition so that there wouldn’t be a real primary, which is a shame, because I think that he’s no longer fit to serve the role of the presidency given present evidence. That said, I would vote for a dead body before I vote for Trump; I’m just frustrated that the democrats are making me.
My friends and I are just not going to vote, that’ll give the party a wakeup call
Then they’ll go all surprised Pikachu that there are no elected officials or candidates pushing their views the next time around.
I’m also absolutely vote blue no matter who. It’s seemed pretty clear to me that the strategy of the people who want Biden to drop out has been pressuring him into doing it voluntarily and endorsing a replacement, likely Harris.
I’m also absolutely vote blue no matter who. It’s seemed pretty clear to me that the strategy of the people who want Biden to drop out has been pressuring him into doing it voluntarily and endorsing a replacement, likely Harris.
Again, double down on your stupidity isn’t going to change the fact that they don’t want EITHER as a candidate.
Keep on, these Ad hominem attacks are surely going to get folks to line up behind you.
This thread is the first I’ve seen where the keep Bideners are in stronger numbers than the ditch Bideners.
It’s refreshing, but, just like the .ml folks, I think y’all need to also look outside your own bubble.
Every single one of these threads, I ask the ditch Bideners for a strategy and have never gotten a single one.
So whatever bubble you think there is, I’m in reality where Biden is the nominee until he isn’t, and the “fuck you I’m taking my ball and going home” crowd are motherfucking fascist apologizes.
The game is on whether or not you take your ball and go home. The lack of a plan or strategy makes it clear that you’re either not serious or panicking.
You know it’s hard to make a strategy if instead of talking about it, someone keeps screeching over it with “Wrong!!! Won’t work! WRONG!!” And keep vilifying anyone thinking what lots of others are as something worse than the actual enemy.
I think panicking is fine and a normal response to situations that require it. If you think yourself above having to make a snap response you might just miss the chance too.
You know it’s hard to make a strategy if instead of talking about it, someone keeps screeching over it with “Wrong!!! Won’t work! WRONG!!”
I mean…maybe stop suggesting things that are wrong and won’t work?
If you’re not hearing the strategies, then you have done too good of a job at filtering your news.
Wow.
What a strategy.
(in non-specific ways)
(raises hand)
Who are we replacing him with?
If that doesn’t have an answer then I have one very specific way in which dropping him might make things worse
If the answer is “let the DNC figure it out, they’ve never steered us wrong before with a candidate” then I will have a follow up question
The likely answer is Harris, but the actual answer is whoever he endorses. Everyone on both sides of the issue has agreed that forcing him off the ticket won’t work, which is why it’s been a pressure campaign.
In any case, the notion the donors are going to all line up and bring someone we’ve never heard of out of a back room to supplant the obvious choice of the vice president or even a popular governor isn’t realistic.
I agree that in practice, it’ll be Harris. I think then the sensible conversation is whether she’ll have a better chance of winning than Biden will.
To me, the fact that she polls like 2 points ahead of him, while she is as she currently is an unknown quantity without all of the attacks against Biden that have been spun up (he invented inflation, he loves immigrants way too much, he killed Palestine, he betrayed Israel, etc etc pick your poison depending on the target audience involved), is a pretty good argument for rallying around Biden instead of switching to Harris and hoping she’ll keep that 2 points. I think once the same machine that’s been trying to burn Biden down gets spun up for real against her, she’ll crumple up and get crushed worse than Biden currently is. Maybe I am wrong in that.
I can see an argument that Biden may continue to fuck up doing things like he did at the debate, and so we need to switch even if by the calculus right now it’s a losing proposition, because of that risk. That doesn’t seem crazy to me. But it’s telling to me that people are saying “We need to switch to candidate X who can’t be compared against Biden directly”, instead of having the honest conversation about why it should be Harris.
I wish Jon Stewart would attend the convention as a candidate.
The only good argument I can think of for swapping candidates last minute is it will throw the Republican propaganda machine into disarray; they’ll need a good month or so to figure out a narrative against whoever it is. But they’re already gearing up anti-Kamala stuff.
Go Joe Biden!
If Biden can’t make the case for his cognitive ability to fulfill the requirements of the office internally to his own party, how does he expect to stand up and fight the shit storm that the GOP will escalate in the coming months?
If Biden can’t make the case
Media has already decided the case. It’s a rigged court. Any other Dem candidate will get the same treatment.
I mean, did they really have to try that hard? The man said he was proud to be the first black woman vice president.
When he followed up the debate by calling Zelensky Putin and confusing his own VP with Trump, there’s really nothing else to be said. You can’t make those mistakes. Not in that office. There’s simply no denying those clips.
And Trump has said…damn where do I even begin?
But all the media focuses on is Biden’s gaffes.
So yes, they try REALLY hard.
I’m sure one who isn’t a senior citizen wouldn’t struggle to justify their cognitive ability for the role.
No, they’d likely find some other avenue of bullshit to peddle.
AoC self admitted she could be wrong and she is. She doesn’t keep her finger on the pulse the same we do, she’s off building solar panels in Puerto Rico. I like AoC, she’s so far off the mark it’ll fuck us over.
She argues that changing candidates this late could complicate the Ohio vote and lead to supreme court deciding the election.
What ‘pulse’ does that even matter about?
Also why do you write ‘AoC’ like that? Her name isn’t Alexandria of Cortes
It’s happened what, once? Twice? A meteor could hit the building both candidates debate at but it’s as unlikely.
Knowing what’s happening is a pretty important part of being a politian. Not knowing what’s being said during a conversation is a pretty good way to say something stupid.
Autocorrect for a gaming acronym I use frequently and the laziness to not go back and correct it every time. Though there’s something to be said about feeling it nessesary to use it as a point of attack even though it’s unrelated.
Also, looks like Biden is dropping out. Sucks to suck.
Yeah, Biden dropped out. Fuck me sideways.
I didn’t mean to attack you about the spelling, just curious since you did it more than once. and it made me think of Attack on Titan acronym, a funny juxtaposition
It seemed like a stronger and stronger possibility because allies within the party were urging it, not just the general public. I’m sincerely surprised he didn’t just grit his teeth and push forward until it was way too late. We’ll see what happens now I guess.
And no worries, been really into Ashes of Creation and it’s a mouthful. To be fair I wouldn’t trust Ashes of Creation on being up to date politically either.
my community does not have the option to lose
That’s not how elections work. No one is going to count how important the outcome is to you. The election will be decided by low-engagement voters in swing states, not by the New Yorkers who elected Ocasio-Cortez. Those New Yorkers actually might as well stay home on election day, since the Democrats will definitely get New York’s electoral college votes anyway.
(Your preferred Democratic candidate only matters if (1) you live in a swing state and (2) you’re seriously considering voting for Trump. Otherwise your job is to figure out which candidate those people prefer and make sure he’s the one running.)
You’re missing the point, even though it’s in bold letters and flashing.
She’s saying that her constituents are among those that are severely threatened by a GOP win. “Failure is not an option” is a very simple way of expressing that. A loss may eventually mean literal concentration camps or some flavor of that (deportation, loss of basic rights, etc)
I’m not missing that point, I’m replying to it. Her constituents are already overwhelmingly likely to vote for any Democratic candidate and live in a solidly blue state, and such people are not going to be the ones who decide the election. The Democrats need input from a representative whose constituents might actually vote for Trump and have their votes matter, not from her. If she’s talking about what her constituents need, what she’s saying is irrelevant because their need, no matter how great, still leaves their votes worthless here.
You say you get the point, and then demonstrate that you missed it entirely.
The reason she’s speaking out is because her constituents are exactly the kind of people that will lose the most of Trump wins. And she’s calling out that the longer this uncertainty continues, the more it harms our chances. That the stakes are high, and (her) people will be hurt if the Dems fumble this again.
She’s also seemingly making the case that changing nominees will hurt our chances more than keeping Biden. Primarily because there’s no obvious choice behind Harris, who the old blood want to skip over, according to her.
Maybe I was reacting more to her rhetoric than to the substance of what she was saying. It’s not unreasonable to argue that replacing Biden at this point is not a good idea (although I don’t agree with that). What I vehemently object to is not that argument but rather the implications that the people trying to push Biden out are not serious about defeating Trump and that she has some unique insight due to representing her (politically irrelevant) constituency.
That’s not what she was implying. She was talking about the danger her constituents face from another Trump Presidency.
You’re not even American, so how can you dictate how our elections actually work?
AOC for President.
It’d be nice to have a competent candidate for once.
Go back and watch Pelosi’s speeches from the late 70s on C-SPAN. AOC sounds exactly like her, and we’ve seen how out of touch Pelosi and all other politicians are.
So maybe Pelosi shouldn’t be in office for over 50 years then. I’m not throwing away a good thing now because it might spoil later. May as well empty out your fridge while you’re at it with that logic.
That just sounds like Pelosi was straight fire in her prime. Will AOC be stale in 50 years? Maybe, or maybe she ends up a Bernie.
She gonna be a pelosi
Met her briefly at a Sanders campaign rally. Would vote for her in a heartbeat.
see, I have hella respect for Bernie and his heartfelt endorsements (i.e. local, state reps) carry weight. national endorsements are usually more political and harder to guage.
this genuinely creates an internal, personal dilemma.
This is the first time I’ve ever started disagreed with AOC on something. If we stick with Biden we’re definitely handing the White House to Trumplethinskin. As Democrats we suck at picking candidates.
Same. It’s the most out-of-step I’ve ever been with her and Bernie, a bit jarring for me. I mean, I get it, it’s free political capital for progressives to voice support here. But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden’s candidacy became unviable.
Could be that they are doing this to keep them from dumping Harris too, which might be the necessary compromise for the party in the end.
But still, as soon as the party started having this conversation through the media, Biden’s candidacy became unviable.
Yeah, his campaign has been dead since a senator went public in opposition. You don’t put in the visible performance he did at the debate, then publicly lose major Democrats, and somehow turn around an already losing campaign. I really don’t get anyone who thinks there’s some path for Biden to win. He didn’t need to lose the faith of a majority of the party to be unviable (which he now has), losing any significant segment was enough to be crippling.
There’s no way to put the genie back in the bottle and people trying to act like it just seem out of touch with reality. Whatever risks you think a new candidate has, at least there’s a chance.
we suck at picking candidates.
The issue is voters don’t pick the candidates, the DNC does. Then the party will rally behind the hand picked candidate and the public follows behind
Yes you are correct. I was talking to the idea that if we have a brokered convention we still suck at picking candidates most of the time.
You are correct that this is different because the incumbent gets a free pass and we didn’t have a real primary between equal candidates.
Idgaf if they nominate Jimmy Carter, I’m voting against the Republican
I would vote for Jimmy Carter again in a heartbeat, that man had principles.
Dude sold his peanut farm… all I needed to know.
I thought the Republican Party was going to crumble first. Instead it is the Democratic Party that’s falling apart, who thought genocide was a winning strategy?
Right? I’ve been told for decades that the GOP’s descent into fascism was the “Screams of a dying party that’ll stop soon enough”… but the Democrats apparently ARE the champions of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
You’ll also lose primary voters. I voted in the primaries, there were multiple candidates, Biden lost the primary in American Samoa. If you throw away my primary vote by swapping in another anointed candidate, why would I ever vote in your primaries again? What is even the point? It’s like the DNC learned nothing from the debacle of them trying to squeeze Bernie out of the race (thank you Wikileaks for revealing their corrupt BS and causing reforms to the primary process). They lost a lot of voters doing that.
I hate the RNC, but if they are the only party that will respect my primary vote, they are the primary I will vote in next election. Dems switching primaries like this may produce a more moderate republican candidate, which is bad news for dems, since they won’t just be able to run on “The RNC is run by crazy christian fascists who want to take all your rights away”.
“Hello, fellow Democrats”
