Honestly it seems like a no-brainer to me to put a solar panel on the roof of electric cars to increase their action radius, so I figured there’s probably one or more good reasons why they don’t.
Also, I acknowledge that a quick google could answer the question, but with the current state of google I don’t want to read AI bullshit. I want an actual answer, and I bet there will be some engineers eager to explain the issues.
I don’t remember what car it was but an ex’s car had this. It was only really used for keeping the car from getting way too hot while it was off in the summer.
If the solar panels could be efficient enough to run the air conditioning, I’m sold lol
My Prius has this. It literally just runs a small fan in the summer to keep the interior/batteries cool.
Look at the Fisker Ocean, it adds almost no range or energy, and leaves horrible and distracting shadows on the passengers. Youat as well ask why you can’t charge a car with a D battery.
What I have seen previously is that the amount of energy you get from the solar cells that you could fit on the top of the car is really small compared to what it takes to charge the battery.
Since there is minimal benefit, and it’s costly to include them and wire them to the battery, it hasn’t been viewed as worthwhile.
Spot on.
Rough summary of when it is energy and effort efficient: https://xkcd.com/1924/
For comparison, my rooftop solar array, with around 16 full-sized panels (~6kwp) produces just under 2 miles per hour in my electric car (around 3.3kwh/mi). Or in real life, takes about 2 fully sunny days to produce the power to charge the car.
What kind of ev are you driving? That’s insanely high energy usage.
My EV gets about 6km per kwh (around 4 miles)
You get 4 miles per kwh and they get 3.3 and you call that insanely high? The 2.5-4 mile to kwh is really standard for EVs. I don’t think the 3.3 is outside of the norm at all.
I don’t know anything about EV efficiency, but the rates are inverse, so they are drastically different.
Fish gets 3.3kwh/mile
Peacock gets 4 miles/kwh or 0.25kwh/mile
Oh I see that error now. I guess I just assumed from context his 6kwh panels generated 2 miles per hour. I get the confusion though
I’m still a little confused, wouldn’t 6kwh provide roughly 12 to 24 miles of driving range?
They mentioned their car uses 3.3 kwh per mile. With their solar setup they can generate around 6hwh per hour. Meaning they can generate roughly 2 miles every hour of sunlight.
Fish reversed the numbers. It should have been miles per kWh
Yeah this is what I’ve heard as well. Aging Wheels goes into it a bit in this review of a concept car, kinda neat - it has pedals like a bicycle but the energy they add is a tiny fraction of what the thing needs to move.
Edit: oops, I’m combining two of his vids in my head, this one is just solar not pedals.
it has pedals like a bicycle
Are you taking about the Aptera from the video you linked?
If so, the Aptera doesn’t have pedals like a bicycle. It’s a fully electric vehicle (or it will be if it reaches production).
Ah crap, you’re right - that’s another video of his, apologies
A few of them have. The core issue is it doesn’t add much range, while at the same time adding more cost, weight, and complexity. On a sunny summer day you can expect to get single digit kilometers added to the range, while on a cloudy winter day you won’t get even a full kilometer added.
They do make some sense on hybrids, as they are lighter so the range increase is a bit more and people are less likely to charge a hybrid. But, they still suffer from not adding much range, while adding cost, weight, and complexity.
Edit: Auto Focus did a re-review of the Fisker Ocean, which has solar panels. Linked to the timestamp where he is talking about them.
Bear in mind also that the extra weight and possibly aerodynamic compromises actually reduce range. In some cases, particularly at night, in poor weather, and at high speed, the panels would be a net negative.
They would only be useful if your car sat around in the sun for long periods without access to a charger.
such as parked at work or in a summer traffic jam?
Parked at work it will probably have a building nearby that creates a shadow. In a traffic jam, assuming perfect sun conditions and no shade, a 100W panel will generate around about 500m (or yards) of range per hour. Meanwhile the AC will use about 700W to 1kW of power to prevent your face from melting.
Some tests on YouTube report a realistic addition of 1 mile per day using the car in a typical commute.
Depending on the car and the temperature, AC Is simply not an option (same for heat) in a traffic jam. I drove a 2019 Nissan Leaf (with 12/12 battery bars and normally 80-140 miles in range, depending on the season)for my 19 mile commute for a while, and had an awful time during subzero temperatures (~-20 Celsius) once. I went from fully charged on the work chargers to considering breaking out my reflective emergency blanket in three hour stop-and-go traffic so as not to kill my battery before home. I stopped to charge and it took much longer than usual, to the point that I just gave up and used my hand warmers and hoped on the way home.
I don’t blame the car for that, I was unprepared for the predictable consequences of cold temperatures on electric cars, but it was still super unpleasant.
Leafs have battery packs with no active heating or cooling, which significantly impacts their performance in bad weather and when fast charging. Coupled with very small packs in the early models, and you have a recipe for a bad experience.
Modern EVs such as Teslas have a high power consumption, much higher than some PV panels on the roof could deliver. Thus, it would only increase the weight of the car while not significantly increasing their range.
In addition to weight, there’s cost. They would have to be integrated into the design, not just normal, flat solar panels, so there’s a significant cost increase. It’s no problem on a delivery van, but anything curvy is probably prohibitively expensive to develop and produce.
TLDR solar panels have a lot of inefficiencies, which makes them more of a detriment to mounting on standard commuter cars when you take into account the effects of the added weight.
Once upon a time Audi had solar panels on the roofs of their car and it could only generate enough power to run the cabin fan to try to cool the car down while you were parked.
To give you an idea of the sheer amount of power that an EV requires to move its bulk, look at the sizes of their batteries vs home battery packs. An EV has battery packs of around 100kWH and that can get you a few hundred miles range at most. Now compare that to the requirements of a home battery. The average use for an entire home is about 30kWH per day, and most home batteries only recommend 10-15kWH.
Looking at that you start to see the massive difference in power usage required. To charge a small home battery like that you usually need multiple panels (10+). They just don’t have the space and power generation to offset the sheer amount of power EVs require.
The same could be asked with smartphones.
Why don’t smartphones include solar panels on the back side of the phone?
Do you usually use your phone in the sun or leave it exposed to direct sunlight?
We buy solar phone chargers for use in the backyard. They work ok. It would take a long time to fully charge, but it will keep you from going empty.
It would be cool if they were built into the highway and could charge your car as you drive over it. That might make toll roads almost worth it.
While that might not be economically feasible, I’ve always wondered why plug-in electrics couldn’t send power back into the grid. No solar? Send energy onto the grid during the day from the car and recharge during the off-hours at night. Solar? Recharge during the day and send energy onto the grid at night. Just make sure to set a minimum charge that will get you to a charging station.
IIRC some car batteries can be used that way, but it wears out the battery.
For LFP batteries it’s irrelevant. They have a 3000 cycles to 80% cap, some of the new ones have 6000. That’s 10 or 20 years assuming full discharges an recharges everyday.
Or in terms of lifespan, assuming a realistic 400km range (250 miles), it’s between 1.2M and 2.4M km before the range reduces to 80% (750k and 1.5M miles). The car will be completely Theseus-ed at the point.
Some do, but to do this, the point of entry to the grid needs to be set up in such a way as to support this, with an automatic transfer switch for when the grid disconnects, and a meter that reads energy use as both incoming and outgoing, rather than the default of all incoming.
Source: am electrician who has installed batteries on peoples houses
Thanks for posting the question! Whole point of the community.
I think we’ll see more of this in the future as they continue to make progress on inexpensive “solar paints” and the like. It’s not a bad idea, it’s just that the tech level doesn’t show much bang for the buck…yet.
The math doesn’t work out unless it’s an ultra light car. Check Aging Wheels video on the Aptera for more. The first few minutes, he covers the technical stuff on car mounted pv.
Because it barely matters. Like putting an extra AA battery in the glove box.
Well now the question is why they don’t put an extra AA battery in the glove box.
They have them on some international models of Hyundai electric cars. It’s not nearly enough to power the car or charge the battery, though. It’s more to just slow the battery down while it powers low-power things and look cool (it’s part of the trim package). Solar panels need to be way more efficient than they are now for them to really make a difference with such a relatively small surface area.
Even on ideal conditions (close to the Equator, no clouds) like in Northeast Brazil, you only get 5.5 to 6.0 kWh/m^2 of Solar energy, which means the roof of a small car, with 1 m^2 of solar panels, would only generate that amount of electricity if they were 100% efficient. That’s just 10% of the battery capacity of a small EV, like a BYD Dolphin.
My point is, even if solar panels doubled their efficiency, they would still only capture about half the energy of the Sun (currently, the best panels are at 24% efficiency), which means only about 2.5 to 3.0 kWh per day.
Doesn’t provide enough power for the cost of the cells, plus having to clean and upkeep them. And the more material you cover them with (to protect them; solar cells are INCREDIBLY fragile), the less efficient they are. I was on a solar car team in college and the cells are so fragile that to clean them, we had to use new microfiber cloths every time. Any dust would scratch and ruin them (which made it quite tough when I drove across the outback in the thing). We kept our cells completely uncovered because we needed maximum efficiency - but even with a super light carbon fiber solar car that’s got very minimal tire contact patches, specialized tires from Bridgestone, and a very aerodynamic shape (plus no amenities like A/C), I think our car could sustain something like 10-15 km/h on a perfectly sunny day in the middle of the outback. It just doesn’t add enough on a huge, heavy EV
So a solar golf cart might be doable?
And more weight means less range.
Having solar cells uncovered by glass is baffling
On the other hand: most cars are not moved 23h a day. They just stand around.
A lightweight solar panel could be a worthwhile range extender in at least some climates.
I’ve seen some prototype solar panels that roll up like a carpet for easy storage. Keep it in the trunk, lay it out when you’re gonna be parked somewhere for a while.
Now THIS is podracing
On the other hand: most trips are made to the exact same place, why move solar panels around when you could just leave them in place (especially if the car isn’t moving for 23hr)?
On the other hand: most cars are not moved 23h a day. They just stand around.
It doesn’t take much shade to have a signifigant reduction in the output of a solar panel.
Unless you are parking in an open field with no trees or tall buildings around your power generation will be signifigantly reduced.
Not that the amount of power generated by a panel the size of a car roof is not all that much, even under ideal conditions.
Exactly. And what’s worth remembering is that solar cars tend to be something like 2X longer then normal cars, and cover the entire surface except for windshield with panels. No rear windshield, either.
