Supposedly AI is going to take all the jobs and yet it still can’t do this task which it seems perfect for. Sure, eventually AI will get good enough to do it in the future, but there is just way too much hype given the reality of the current situation. This is a job that fast food workers are already required to do in addition to other duties, so it’s not like it’s labor saving from the company’s perspective either.
There is no certainty that LLMs can overcome the current limitations they are stumbling on.
I think developments in AI will come but there is no guarantee they will. They seem to be suffering from the Pareto Principle just like self-driving car ML models and this despite huge investments.
100% this. The base algorithms used in LLMs have been around for at least 15 years. What we have now is only slightly different than it was then. The latest advancement was training a model on stupid amounts of scraped data off the Internet. And it took all that data to make something that gave you half decent results. There isn’t much juice left to squeeze here, but so many people are assuming exponential growth and “just wait until the AI trains other AI.”
It’s really like 10% new tech and 90% hype/marketing. The worst is that it’s got so many people fooled you hear many of these dumb takes from respectable journalists interviewing “tech” journalists. It’s just perpetuating the hype. Now your boss/manager is buying in =]
Breakthroughs are so interesting and the reason predicting the future of tech is so hard. Text embedding and “Internet scale” training are likely the things that allowed this AI boom and the amazing initial results.
I think many people see AI (and other tech) moving linearly from the current point forward but any software developer knows this is rarely the case. And no one can predict the next breakthrough.
It doesn’t help the hype and confusion around ML/LLM/AGI. And because on the surface LLMs seem intelligent people misunderstand their capabilities (much like politicians). They certainly have fantastic uses just as they are now but a lot of people are overly optimistic (or pessimistic depending on your point of view) of our new “AI overlords”.
Personally, LLMs are absolutely amazing at supporting me in my professional writing. I don’t let it do my work but it helps me play around to find a better way to express some things like if I had a sparing writing partner.
I actually went to a mcdonalds that did this. It was overall way more slow and annoying. I would be willing to make that concession if knew that it was something to worked towards a better future for humans, but all its means is that someone is getting fired under capitalism. Also it failed to understand if I wanted sauce and just referred me to someone actually working.
I’ve heard a few instances in which “AI” is just a bunch people responding to a voice to text feed in the Philippines.
So much of this isn’t really technology. It’s just a new kind of service sector outsourcing.
This reminds me of a post I saw once were someone said AI stood for Actually Indian
Amazons Mechanical turk in a nutshell
I think McDs always planned to roll out remote customer service to really maximize capitalism. And wrapping it under AI because that’s a trendy buzzword!
I don’t think that replacing order taking positions is stealing anyone’s job, in fast food at least. I worked at a fast food joint one time. We were always shorthanded and we always had to do order taking while doing a bunch of other things. It was such bullshit. From an overworked employee perspective, if there was any way to get out of doing drive through orders while doing all my other tasks, I would be happy to use it.
They will still be short staffed and overworked. The company isn’t outsourcing the drive through out of the kindness of their hearts in order to lighten the workload on the employees.
Maybe I’m just really good with talking to robots, but the AI drivethru voice at my local McDonald’s is way, way, way more accurate than basically all of the employees they used to have running it before. A few times it’s been down for whatever reason and an actual human takes my order and I remember how shit they are at their jobs when they get my order wrong yet again, or can’t hear me, or talk with gum in their mouths or whatever.
Hunh. And here I thought they couldn’t get any worse than when they had call centers taking orders from the drive through…
Two stories like this–as in, “oops AI sucks actually”, in about as many weeks. (The other one was about Amazon shutting down their Just Walk Out mechanical turk nonsense.)
I think we’re starting to see the tide turn against Altman’s big con.
I liked this quote BTW:
the test left it confident “that a voice-ordering solution for drive-thru will be part of our restaurants’ future.”
lmao you… already have one of those? So the subtext of this message is “we can’t just say AI was a terrible idea but yeah, we’re going back to the shit that worked before”
At least the “just walk out” was a genuine attempt at the tech, created long before the AI craze. Still failed, but they weren’t following a fad.
Edit: Sorry, I misread your comment, I understand what you mean now! Original comment maintained as a lesson for me to improve my reading comprehension.
Oh, didn’t you hear? Just Walk Out was pretty much vaporware, the system was powered by thousands of people in third world nations watching customers through cameras and remotely managing their virtual basket. Basically it was just offshoring of the cashier.
I wonder if the concept could still be useful. It fails if the goal is removing human workers, but the tech basically enables “cashiers” to work from home, and that’s a win for the cashiers who’d like that.
But no one is going to invest in a win for the cashiers, and if they did, then like we saw, it would be outsourcing the work to third world nations, rather than local people having the ability to work from home…
Considering the costs of implementing it (installing a billion cameras), it doesn’t really make a lot of sense - self checkout makes much more sense, but of course until we deal with the elephant in the room (capitalism), automation is more of a bad thing than a good thing.
Still order like grandpa. I go in and want to talk to a human and order. I hate those gross ass touchscreens. I am probably a minority especially in my age group and working in tech
Always wondered why anyone would rather talk to a person than take their time, have a nice overview of the menu, and pay in advance. I guess they are gross though.
just use your knuckle
Because I’m at a fast food place in the first place because my time is important and I don’t want to waste it ordering.
That and the guy taking orders does it 1000x a day and i can easily order that way instead of me navigating ten different menus just to order a simple meal for my family.
I’m OK with my old man status at this point. Tech is good when it improves things for the consumer. The kiosks seem to just improve the company bottom line IMO.
The only time I would rather not talk to a person is if the accent causes a language barrier. Otherwise 9 times out of 10 a person is going to understand what you want better especially if it’s a customization issue
At least in my experience I have more customization issues when taking to people rather than using an app or going through a kiosk. The only time it’s the other way around is when they don’t include an option I want on the digital version but that’s becoming less and less common for me at least. The number of times I’ve had orders just missing customization things I asked for but they didn’t hear or forgot to enter is much higher when I go through the drive through or go in person then when I do it through something digital.
The only time I would rather not talk to a person is if the accent causes a language barrier.
“Gobble gobble goo?”
“Uhhhh…I’m sorry?”
“Gobble…gobble…goo?”
“…what?”
“GOBBLE GOBBLE GOO!!!”
“I have no idea what you mean by that…”
Guy behind you in line: “c’mon man!!! Pay attention! He’s saying CAN I HELP YOU?”
“Really? Those phonetic sounds were supposed to be in any way similar to the thing you said? It’s not even close…”
“English is probably his second language. How well do you speak THEIR language?”
“Which language do you speak?”
“Yjxrjk#@■♡○{rjbzwk!”
“I’m done.”
I am a touch screen enjoyer. At least in theory. I like having time to browse, look at pictures, easy access to customization options and most importantly no feeling of pressure. I am not spending a cashier’s time and potentially blocking someone behind me (at least there is usually less of a line for the self-ordering).
However there are negatives for sure. My biggest annoyance is that these devices are often annoyingly slow and unresponsive. They just display a tiny bit of text and images, they should switch between screens at 60fps, not 2s per click. Also if I know what I want it is often faster to tell the cashier and let them enter the order (on their more expert-optimized and less laggy keypad).
Also, explicit confirmation of your customizations and of your order. You can double check yourself to make sure it’s all correct before submitting the order while the distracted and overworked employee at the counter could hit the wrong button or skip a customization and you often wouldn’t know until you receive the wrong item. Then you have to create more work for the workers to get your order remade.
This is why I tend to just use the mobile apps for places to order. Not laggy and gives the benefits you mentioned of using a touch screen kiosk. A lot of them you don’t even need an account to use the app which is nice if that’s something that bothers you.
There’s a reason everyone and their brother want you to install an app these days.
Yeah, I like this style but don’t want their apps installed on my phone. A few places have mobile sites which is excellent, I know what access it has and it is shut down completely when I close the tab.
But what if they want to notify you about great deals and coupons? DON’T YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT GREAT DEALS AND COUPONS?!?
I just don’t give notification permissions to most apps unless I actually care about notifications from it.
The apps are super slow though. Like I don’t need a 5 second animation of bouncing fries every time I do anything. Dunkin is another offender.
I find this a bit odd as you make it seem as if ordering is a complicated process that takes some thought and planning. The whole draw of McDonalds is that you get the exact same food wherever you may be and their options are fairly limited. Ham/cheeseburger, chicken burger, fish sandwich, or nuggets is pretty much your array of options.
I personally dislike the ordering screens as they make the process way to drawn out. Let me just pick a #1, the size, and the drink and be done with it in 3 taps. Last time I used one, it wanted me to basically build my own meal as if I was ordering Dominoes online and building my own pizza.
As I said if you know what you want the cashier is usually faster and easier. However I don’t eat at any single fast food place very often. So even if I know sort of what I want I don’t remember exactly what toppings, flavours and sizes are available. If I was ordering I would probably just pick whatever common order I would expect can work, but I appreciate that I can see a list of options and do a bit of browsing.
their options are fairly limited. Ham/cheeseburger, chicken burger, fish sandwich, or nuggets is pretty much your array of options
You must not have been to a McDonald’s in a while. Do you want that chicken sandwich grilled or crispy? Spicy? Are we talking the basic value sammich you can wolf down before you leave the parking lot, or the bigger one that comes in a cardboard box? The one with bacon and ranch, or one of the others? Did you want a combo meal? Lettuce is stupid filler on a sandwich, do you want to skip that?
They just display a tiny bit of text and images, they should switch between screens at 60fps, not 2s per click.
I think this is intentional. They want you to take time looking at the pictures so you might think “you know what, actually I’d like some of those fries as well” by making it hard to just quickly select what you want and leave.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if there’s a psychological effect where you feel like ordering more makes this tedious ordering process more worthy. I mean why go through 2 minutes of clicking and waiting just for one stupid cheeseburger.
speaking as someone who worked a drive thru window during morning rush: LET THE FUCKING AI WORK THE DRIVE THRU
Why would they in the first place? What’s wrong with a touchscreen menu to take an order?
Then, of course, I’m not sure such places fundamentally even need human personnel other than maintenance techs. Standard ingredients, prepackaged I think, standard hardware to cook, standard everything. It can just be a huge burger-selling machine with no human in sight.
Lots of their drive thrus use a person to take the order, and at a busy drive thru this becomes a dedicated person or persons just to take orders. If they can flip it to AI then they could open more lanes and reduce staff. Problem is that a skilled person is going to be better than AI over a shitty audio system, look at how Alexa and Siri struggle even when they have an optimized reception setup than the crappy setup you have at a drive thru with the person sitting inside their car, with music on and so on.
Maybe voice interfaces are simply a fundamentally flawed idea. If one can extend a hand to take the package with the food, they can also push a few buttons. If those buttons are with hercons or such, they’ll even last longer than consumer-grade touchscreens.
Of course it’s easier when a human takes the order. But then if the cost of N screens with physical buttons is equal to that, one can make their order, say, N/2 times slower without any hurry and, well, the throughput should be higher still.
For drive thrus - that’d be M lanes with such terminals and a bit slower than M lanes with people. So - depends on how the cost of asphalt and space and people and terminals work economically.
What’s definitely idiotic is to think one can replace a human with an “AI” without losing in efficiency. But then again, maybe it’s worth it.
While I like the ideas with screens, and fixed buttons even more so, they haven’t gone with them despite the tech being available for a considerable time. I do wonder if its mostly down to how people use them rather than a limitation of the tech itself. Watch how many people nearly swipe or even do scrape exit parking machines, even simple parking meters stop working, people struggle to use the ones inside, then add in weather damage/proofing and vandalism and I would guess thats a big part of it. As its often a closed queue system any problem becomes a major issue almost instantly.
“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”
“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”
“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”
Touchscreen? That’s old, we can’t use that in our marketing, even BK has those. We need something new, fuckin do I care if it works???
They could advertise actually usable physical buttons …
Those would stop working because local scoundrels would stick their chewing gums in them
With hercons without place to stick anything. Like a blister. You’ve seen such buttons.
Those could work if it wasn’t for the local perverts blocking them 24/7 because twiddling them feels a bit like twiddling a robot’s nipples
Never seen that. One can make them less like nipples and more like a depressable square area on a wall.
I personally HATE those places where you walk inside and you need to use the stupid touchscreen. I’ve asked someone to take my order, they say no. So I get in the car and go to the drive through where you still get a person taking your order.
Can I ask why you hate it? I am genuinely curious. Thanks!
Not the OP but for me it takes like 4 times longer to use the tuch screen. Find the button for what i want. Do you want to super-sized? Do you want fries with that? How are you paying today? Blah blah blah whereas with the counter its me saying one sentence and them pushing 2 buttons.
Maybe stand a foot further apart from the screen? That way you’ll be able to see the button better.
What you hate about it are the constant upsell shenanigans, not the touchscreen per se. I dislike those, too, but I reckon the human staff are also trying to sell more than you want?
That makes sense to me - if you had the choice between using a touch screen to place an order immediately or waiting in line behind 4 other people though, would you use the touchscreen then? Again, just curious, I’m not trying to make out that you’re ordering McDonalds wrong ;P
If there are 4 people in line for a cashier, take away the cashier and you still have 4 people in line waiting for the kiosk… And it will take longer because ordering from the kiosk is a slow process.
Ooof not sure why you got downvoted.
I’m starting to think people who hate ordering from a touchscreen really see talking to a cashier as fulfilling social needs.
He’s looking to chat up some young ladies before he has to go back home to the old ball’n’chain…
What if there are physical buttons, like with ATMs?
Why not just have a touchscreen menu then? You already need large screens so people can confirm the AI recorded their order correctly and this will skip the need of a person manning the drive through menu. You could even include options to “hold the pickle”, etc.
Or like a mobile app that works reliably and doesn’t completely suck?
Or a mobile app that doesn’t force people to waive their rights to sue on October 23rd, 2023
This would also be nice. Usually, I only order fast food if I can place a call first (Indian, Chinese, Mexican, Pizza, etc). Grubhub fees are ridiculous or and apps are always taking your data.
I’ve often wondered this, they have them inside all the stores here but not on the drive throughs
Maybe it’s an issue of weatherproofing, or maybe vandalism?
Maybe, but they already have screens there so this wouldn’t change much. I guess reaching a screen from your car could be a bit awkward though.
It wasn’t working.
I think those kiosks with the big touch screen and the mobile apps work pretty well already, I always rather use them and see a picture what I can order instead of talking to the person.
Those kiosks aren’t in the drive-throughs.
Fuck all, I hate those things. Just pay a teenager to take my order with a judgemental expression. I hate self checkouts, I hate self order kiosks, no I do not want to use a phone app to place my order, I just want a double cheeseburger with no pickles GODAMMIT
tbh I’d rather not see the picture when it comes to mcdonald’s, as it can only lead to a disappointment
To be fair, you’ll be disappointed either way. At least with the menu, they can feel like they’re selling decent food (their pictures do look decent) and you can make sure your order is correct.
I don’t see how one can make sure their order is correct with a fake picture, but whatever floats your boat
Well, if you push the same fake picture you did last time, you should get a similar, disappointing result. If you get a different, disappointing result, you know your order is wrong.
I’ve stopped waiting in drive thrus because it’s faster and more convenient to order it ahead of time and pick it up inside.
I used the Mcdonalds app a few times and the drivethru was always faster, lmao.
They require location services and don’t start cooking until you’re inside their geofence, but IME they seem to still prioritize drivethru customers.
I don’t eat at McDonald’s, so I haven’t had that experience. But I love being able to order Sheetz food for the next morning when I’m going on a trip, or schedule it for when I’m going to need a pit stop and just have it ready. Wendy’s is also pretty good about this, too.
I have disabled location settings because it tracks the drive from my home. I enable it to use any deals and close the app after ordering and taking a photo of the order number. They start cooking after you let them know the code in the drive-thru. No need to open the app. They do prioritize drive-thru’s because their performance is tracked based off that. That’s why they sometimes ask you to pull ahead from the window. I never worked there, I just noticed the timing screen in the kitchen when I used to do DoorDash, which tracked when a car got in and out of the line. They used to act as though I was invisible and only served drive-thru.
I can’t use the mobile app because my kid wants a cheeseburger happy meal and it’s impossible to order on the app. Try it! It won’t let you at all.
Technically, cheeseburger happy meals are no longer on the menu because they’ve decided it has too many calories. If you go there and ask for one, of course, they will add a slice of cheese to a hamburger happy meal. But using the app to order one is a bridge too far, I guess.
When it comes down to it, though, we shouldn’t eat that crap anyway.
I checked, just for you. You can pick the hamburger happy meal and add cheese.
Where are you located? I am in the US. I downloaded and logged into the App again (just in case something changed) and I see no option to add cheese to a hamburger happy meal. I can pick a hamburger meal and “customize”, and add everything else – even a second hamburger patty if I wanted – but no cheese.
Maybe it’s just with my local McD?
Massachusetts. Adding cheese is there for the two McD’s near me.
https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/c7323c38-f5d0-47e0-b96d-9264755fb952.png
https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/81a3ab83-85cd-4f5f-8332-3c997c43a5a2.png
Weird. I don’t see that “American Cheese” line at all. Maybe it’s a NY thing.
I see cheese in Buffalo and Rochester, but not in Albany. It’s more localized than NY.
Interesting. I will have to do some more experiments later to see where they will let me order that. Thanks for confirming it’s not just me, though. I wa suspicious that there was some sort of cheesy conspiracy going on.
Checking in from Iowa and I have the option here too when I hit the customize button. I do have to scroll down a bit?
You might try uninstalling and reinstalling. If on android, clear your settings before the uninstall. The mcdee app does tend to be kind of unpredictable.
If that doesn’t work, send an email to them. I actually did email on some problem I had and they responded pretty quick with a temp workaround and fixed it later.
I fucking hate them.
They’re designed for people who are about 5’0". They take so much longer than speaking the order to a person, especially if you have any customizations to add/remove.
0/10, avoid at all costs.
For me it’s the exact opposite, most of them have the possibility to change the language to English, even though it’s only partially translated I still can see the pictures of what I’m trying to order. If I need to look at the Korean menu and then speak Korean to the person to order, then I would just go away, especially if they don’t have pictures on the menu.
For me it’s use 10/10 (even the crappy ones)
I can understand the language barrier win there.
They’re designed for people of average (male) height, like everything else from default seatbelt position to doorways. Sounds like yet another tall person complaint to add to the pile.
In any case, I find them comfortable (probably because I’m average height lmao) and I like to take my time ordering to combine the best deals possible without having a cashier staring waiting on me so they can go take care of all the other things that McDs overworks their employees with.
IME (I’ve worked FF before) you “Fuck these machines” people generally trend towards annoying karen-type and take FOREVER ordering.
Doorways? Lol. Think about the alternative, if they were designed for the average height for females. Most men would need to duck or crawl under doorways.
Ok yea doorways was probably a bad example since those actually get an additional allowance for furniture and crap
And to clarify, I don’t actually agree with the method of using the male average for everything (Ever wonder why they set the Office thermostat to 72? That’s right male average of comfort lol), but it’s what the world around us is built around.
You just sound like you’re on a witch-hunt and hate men lol.
Can I get a McCrapwich? That’s it, no drink. <tap>. It’s like 10 seconds.
Oh, did you want to remove the tomato?
That’ll be an extra 3 minutes.
What parent item are the salads under again?
They blow.
I like customizations on the touchscreen. I’ve had several experiences where I tell the cashier what I want including customizations only to get my order and realize that the order wasn’t entered in properly. The touchscreen ensures that the order is at least entered properly.
I use them but they are still made to be annoying
- Start
- No I don’t use a mobile app
- Takeaway
- Burgers
- Big Mac menu
- Fries
- Cola
- Add to basket
- No I don’t want extra
- Pay
- No I don’t want extra
- Pay here
- Pay with credit card
- Finally pay
- Printer is not working
- Oh what was my number?
I prefer just saying “can I get a medium #2 combo, please.” And being done with it.
That may be fine for regular customers, but what about the rest of us who don’t have the menu memorized?
Then there’s more ‘uhm’ and ‘aah’ involved.
The menu is 6 foot across, above the counter where you order, glowing, with pictures of each item and number next to it. Even someone who couldn’t read could order food using the normal system.
I’ve literally ordered by signing a number with my fingers to indicate the item I wanted in a country where I don’t speak the language at a fast food franchise I’d never been to before.
The menu is 6 foot across, above the counter where you order, glowing, with pictures of each item and number next to it
And changing pages while you’re trying to parse the cacophony of choices and options.
Most menus are fixed paper with back lighting not changing displays, most of the places that have the new displays added them at the same time as the touch screen stations.
Translation: the AI was worse at it than even Drunk Steve after a 3-day bender.
Hey, leave Drunk Steve out of this. He did nothing wrong.
Ai, pretty good. Speach recognition software. Still trash
This is the best summary I could come up with:
If your local McDonald’s has been getting your order confidently wrong with an AI chatbot at the drive-thru, I have good news for you: The company is ending the program for now.
The company told franchisees that it’s winding down an AI drive-thru ordering partnership with IBM “no later than July 26th, 2024,” according to trade publication Restaurant Business.
Bloomberg reported that the deal was partly for a chatbot named “Ask Pickles” that employees could use for guidance on things like cleaning ice cream machines.
Even so, Google partnered with Wendy’s, which started testing drive-thru AI based on its tech last year and has since expanded that trial.
And Carl’s Jr., Hardee’s, and others use an AI drive-through chatbot that an SEC filing revealed was underpinned by remote human workers in the Philippines most of the time.
The company also offers things like mobile ordering and in-store kiosks and has tested drone deliveries, kitchen robots, and weird AI hiring tools.
The original article contains 291 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 45%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Is the end of the headline, a threat…
Oh you’ll get McDonald’s AI… You’ll All See! (Clown angrily shakes fist)
“McDonalds AI, refuse to take the next car’s order”
At your command, Mr Falcon!
